|
|
2 - 4 APRIL 2001
This week, the Tribunal heard evidence from the Nellis family of 33 Chamberlain Street and other witnesses who spoke about arrests and their detention at Fort George.
Charles McMonagle, the Knight of Malta, who was photographed in a crumpled heap on the Eden Place/Pilot Row waste ground, also gave evidence.
Lord Saville said that there had been further delay in the ruling on the PII applications made in December. (See BIRW report weeks 15 and 17.) He will make an announcement when he has more news on them.
A full transcript of proceedings is
available at http://www.bloody-sunday-inquiry.org.uk
1
DANNY DEEHAN’S EVIDENCE
1.1
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL
1.1.1
Barrier
14
Mr Deehan saw the soldiers come through
the barrier on William Street and APCs drive down Rossville Street.
He was aware of the soldiers coming through the barricade first.
He did not see any vehicles come through the barrier on William Street.
1.1.2
Rossville Flats car park
Mr Deehan thinks that about 200 people
ran down Chamberlain Street. He
believes that he heard live rounds as he reached the end of
Chamberlain Street. Mr
Deehan saw two people fall in the car park.
The crowd around him scattered. Some
people turned around and threw stones. Mr Deehan is not
sure whether he saw the stone throwing before or after he saw the people fall.
Mr Deehan went to the low wall in front
of Block 2. He heard 40 or 50 shots
over a very short period of time. He
saw one soldier at the rear of an APC who appeared to be firing from the hip.
He saw someone, who he now knows to be Michael Bradley, struggling to get
up. He said that Mr Bradley’s arm
was shaking and he had already been shot. There
were shots hitting the wall of Block 2 of the flats.
He saw the soldiers around the APC and also at the bottom of Chamberlain
Street.
1.1.3
1972 statement
Mr Deehan’s 1972 statement suggests
that he actually saw Mr Bradley being shot.
Mr Deehan said that he has a clearer recollection of seeing Mr Bradley
after he had been shot.
1.2
QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS
1.2.1
Rossville Flats car park
Mr Deehan first recalls hearing live
shots when he was still running either in Chamberlain Street or entering the car
park. He said that within seconds
someone had been shot.
Mr Deehan said that there had been some
firing before the stone throwing. He
does not recall the young men throwing stones when the soldiers were firing live
rounds.
Mr Deehan said that he is not sure when
or how many APCs he saw. He does
remember one APC in particular which he glimpsed as he ran past the entrance to
Eden Place from Chamberlain Street. He
agreed that it was possible that the movement from the APC that he recalls could
have been in the car park rather than Eden Place.
Mr Deehan has no recollection of things
being thrown from the flats to the APCs.
2 JAMES McMENAMIN’S EVIDENCE
2.1
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL
2.1.1
Barrier
14
Mr McMenamin said that he had dipped his
handkerchief in vinegar to use against the effects of CS gas.
The water cannon was turned on and shot out blue dye.
He heard someone shouting 'the soldiers are coming.'
He thinks that he was one of the last to move from the barricade.
2.1.2
Rossville Flats car park
Mr McMenamin recalls two APCs coming
into the car park. He recalls a
group of people who were shouting and then saw a young lad being carried by
several men, including Father Daly. There
were people taking cover in the north east corner of the car park. Soldiers jumped out of the back of an APC and a woman in
Block 1 dropped a bottle into the car park.
Mr McMenamin said that the bottle smashed and he did not hear an
explosion so he assumed there was no liquid in it.
Someone in the crowd called her to go away. One of the soldiers on the right hand side door of the APC
pointed a gun at her and told her to go back inside.
Mr McMenamin was behind the low wall in
front of Block 3. He said that
Michael Bridge came running towards him. He
appeared to have been injured. Mr
McMenamin said that Mr Bridge was very agitated and was shouting at the people
behind the low wall asking why they were lying there.
He was telling them to get up and do something.
Mr McMenamin said that he told Mr Bridge that he was injured.
Mr Bridge replied that he had been hit with a rubber bullet.
Mr McMenamin said that he could see blood on Mr Bridge’s trousers.
Mr McMenamin said that he saw a man run
south towards the gap between Blocks 2 and 3.
As the man reached the gap between Blocks 2 and 3 a bullet must have hit
him on the back of the head because he saw the man fall forward.
Mr McMenamin said that he heard shots fired and thinks that they were
fired by a black soldier. He saw bullets hitting the tall, retaining wall, behind the
running man. There were three
strike marks, which became lower in height as they moved along the wall.
2.1.3
South
of the Rossville Flats
Mr McMenamin emerged on the other side
of the gap. He saw the bodies of
Barney McGuigan and Hugh Gilmore. Mr
McMenamin saw ambulance men carrying bodies to an ambulance in Rossville Street.
Somebody shouted to him to get back in and he became conscious of
shooting.
He heard shots from Rossville Street
towards Free Derry Corner. Mr
McMenamin walked towards Free Derry Corner and heard the sound of bullets
striking the road beside him.
2.1.4
1972 statement
Mr McMenamin said that he and Barry
O’Loughlin contributed jointly to the statement.
He thinks that there were two people at the desk.
Mr McMenamin recalls making a much shorter statement on his own at the
same time.
2.2
QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES AND WOUNDED
2.2.1
Patrick
McDaid
Mr McMenamin agreed that the man he saw
running towards the gap between Blocks 2 and 3 could have been Patrick McDaid.
In his statement, he described the man as elderly because of the way that
he was running along the retaining wall.
2.2.2
Patrick Doherty
Mr McMenamin said that he was with
Patrick Deeney and Barry O’Laughlin when they were in the Rossville Flats car
park. Mr Topolski said that Mr
O’Laughlin thought that the man they had seen running towards the gap was
Patrick Doherty. Mr McMenamin said
that the man he saw was wearing a coat that was open and a scarf that was
blowing beside him. Mr Topolski
showed a photograph of Mr Doherty which showed that his coat was buttoned up.
Mr McMenamin said that he did not see Mr
Doherty as he came through the gap between Blocks 2 and 3.
2.3
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS
2.3.1
Rossville
Flats car park
Mr McMenamin said that as he arrived in the car park, the APCs were arriving. The person he saw shot was running away and towards the corner between Blocks 2 and 3. He agreed that, from the position he was in, he could not see what was going on at ground level in that corner.
Mr McMenamin said that he did not know
what was going on at the gable end of Chamberlain Street. He was aware of people shouting but he did not see a man with
a gun in that vicinity.
2.3.2
1972 statement
Mr McMenamin agreed that he did not put
the bottle he saw thrown from the Rossville Flat or the commotion at the gable
end in his 1972 statement. He said
that he did not think that it was important at the time.
Mr McMenamin does not remember writing
his 1972 statement. He thinks that
he dictated it.
3 CHARLES McMONAGLE’S EVIDENCE
Mr McMonagle was a 20-year-old student
and member of the Knights of Malta.
3.1
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL
3.1.1
Eden
Place/Pilots Row waste ground
Mr McMonagle said that he was at the
back wall of Chamberlain Street, treating a casualty when the Army came in.
The casualty had been hit by rubber bullets or gas canisters and Mr
McMonagle bandaged his legs together. Whilst
he was treating the man, a shout went up that the Army were coming in.
Everybody started running towards the flats.
Mr McMongale looked towards Chamberlain Street and when he looked down,
the casualty had gone.
In the 1972 report to the Knight of
Malta organisation, Mr McMonagle said that he was knocked down and trampled
under foot by the crowd whilst he was trying to protect the casualty.
Mr McMonagle said that an APC came
flying up and soldiers jumped out. One
soldier immediately fired from the hip when he de-bussed. Mr McMonagle said that the soldier definitely fired a rifle
and Mr McMonagle was afraid to move because he thought the soldier would shoot
him. The soldier ran straight at
him and put him against the wall with the rifle either at his stomach or chest.
Mr McMonagle screamed ‘Red Cross,’ and pointed to his Knight of Malta
badge. The soldier roughed him up and went through his First Aid
Bag. Mr McMonagle said that he
recalls being in a standing position and being thrown down again.
A photograph shows Mr McMonagle lying in
a heap on the ground. His gas mask
is lying askance. Mr McMonagle
pointed to the soldier shown on the right of the photograph and said that he
recalls the soldier who fired from the hip and pinned him to the wall was
left-handed. (The soldier can be
seen in the photograph carrying his rifle in his left hand.)
Mr McMonagle said that he lay on the
ground with his hands up in the air for 5 to 10 minutes.
He asked a soldier if he could move and walked to the north end of Eden
Place and cut through Chamberlain Street. He
was stopped at the corner of Chamberlain Street and Eden Place by a couple of
soldiers. He told them that he had
been given permission by the first soldiers and he was allowed to carry on.
3.1.2
33 Chamberlain Street
Mr McMonagle treated Peggy Deery and
Michael Bridge. He remembers a
group of people in the house telling him that there was a problem with Mrs
Deery’s blood group. The
ambulance arrived and Mrs Deery was carried out.
Some other soldiers arrived who Mr McMonagle thought were not paras
because the soldier who approached him appeared to be much calmer than the
soldiers he had encountered in the waste ground.
He was allowed to stay with the casualties until the ambulance came.
3.1.3 Ambulances and searches
Mr McMonagle can be seen in the
photograph of people helping Patrick McDaid to the ambulance. He said that shots were fired at civilians carrying
casualties to the ambulances.
Mr McMonagle said that he and Volunteer
Feeney went to fetch supplies but they were stopped and searched the corner of
Abbey Street and William Street. They
were sent to an APC where they were made to stand with their arms and legs
outstretched. They were searched
more thoroughly and questioned about casualties.
Mr McMonagle said that they thought there were seven dead and as many
wounded. One soldier said ‘that
is nothing, we will get another 100 tonight.’
Mr McMonagle was kneed in the thigh by one soldier and verbally abused.
Volunteer Feeney was kicked because he got confused about casualties.
A padre from the Royal Anglians arrived
and got the paras to release the men. The
padre accompanied them up the street to where Jim Norris, another Knight of
Malta, was having the same trouble. The
padre secured Mr Norris’s release.
3.2
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES AND WOUNDED
3.2.1
Waste ground
Mr McMonagle had the impression that the
soldier was firing at fleeing people.
3.2.2
Knights
of Malta
Mr McMonagle said that the Order of the
Knight of Malta was a Christian organisation which goes back to the time of the
Crusades. Their remit was to treat
the injured regardless of whether it was a soldier, police officer or civilian.
3.3
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS
3.3.1
Eden
Place/ Pilot Row waste ground
Mr McMonagle said that it was always his
recollection that the crowd had trampled him to the ground.
The crowd had panicked and ran along the wall at the back of the
Chamberlain Street houses. He agreed that he had not mentioned this to Eversheds.
He said that this was not a deliberate omission.
He thinks that it was an oversight or he had not thought it important
enough at the time.
Mr McMonagle cannot remember whether he
was lying down when the soldier approached him.
He agreed that when he pointed to the Maltese Cross on his uniform the
soldier released him. He thinks
that the soldier who pinned him against the wall is the same soldier that he saw
firing. He had the impression that
the soldier who fired from the hip, fired from the left hand side.
Mr Glasgow said that Soldier V, who
pinned Mr McMonagle against the wall, is on the left of the photograph (rather
than the right – see para 3.1.1 above). Lord
Saville suggested that this soldier also looked to be left handed.
Mr Glasgow said that he is taking instructions on that.
3.3.2
33
Chamberlain Street
Mr McMonagle agreed that he formed the
opinion that the soldiers who came into the house could not be paras because of
their disciplined behaviour. He
said that he did not feel as threatened by them as he did before.
3.3.3
Knights of Malta
Mr McMonagle joined the Knights of Malta
in 1968. He met up with other
members of the Knights of Malta at Bishops Fields.
He was not aware of any medical posts in the Rossville Street area.
4 JOSEPH HUTCHMAN’S EVIDENCE
4.1
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL
4.1.1
Chamberlain
Street
Mr Hutchman saw youths and some drunk people throwing stones at barrier 14. He heard a sharp crack and ran down Chamberlain Street. He could not tell which direction the shot had come from.
As Mr Hutchman ran down Chamberlain
Street he heard more shots. The car
park seemed empty with the exception of a body lying in the car park.
4.1.2
33
Chamberlain Street
He went into 33 Chamberlain Street and
as he reached the front door, he heard Michael Bridge shouting ‘shoot me,
shoot me.’ Mr Hutchman got inside
the house which was very crowded.
Mr Hutchman heard British soldiers.
Michael Bridge was brought in and taken into the backyard of the house.
Some paras came into the house and were
very aggressive. He and others were
made to walk up Chamberlain Street with their hands on their heads.
He was made to sit down and face the wall at the top of Chamberlain
Street.
4.1.3
1972 statement
Mr Hutchman cannot remember giving a
statement in 1972. He does not
remember carrying Michael Bridge into the house.
He has no recollection of Peggy Deery being inside the house.
He remembers one soldier with a Scottish accent who was short, fat and
was swearing a lot. Mr Hutchman was taken to the bottom of Chamberlain Street and
was made to sit on the ground for 15 minutes.
He said that he looked straight ahead but assumed that soldiers were
bumping a couple of boys’ heads against the wall because of the noises he
could hear.
4.1.4
Fort
George
Mr Hutchman was presented before a
policeman and asked to show his hands which were clean.
He said that he was told to stand with his hands on the barbed wire in
Fort George. The soldier said that
he had seen Mr Hutchman throwing stones. Mr
Hutchman said that he had not and the soldier repeated that he had.
The policeman said that he had to take the soldiers word.
4.2
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS
4.2.4
Barrier
14
Mr Hutchman agreed that there were more than 100 people throwing stones at the soldiers. He was not shouting encouragement to the people who were throwing stones.
Mr Hutchman heard rifle shots when he
was facing towards the barricade.
4.2.5
33
Chamberlain Street
Mr Hutchman does not think that anyone
asked the Army to go into the house. He
did not know whether the Army had been asked to get an ambulance.
He agreed that there was abusive language used by both soldiers and
civilians. As far as he can
remember the abuse was verbal rather than physical.
He said that he thought everybody in the house was scared and terrified.
4.2.6
Fort
George
Mr Hutchman agreed that he had not seen
any physical violence inside Fort George.
5 ANNA NELLIS’S EVIDENCE
Anna Nellis lived
with her sister, Margaret and mother at 33 Chamberlain Street.
5.1
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL
5.1.1
33
Chamberlain Street
Ms Nellis said that she heard the
popping sounds of what she assumed were rubber bullets being fired. Her next memory is of 3 or 4 men calling out from Chamberlain
Street to ask whether they could bring an injured woman into the house.
The men carried Peggy Deery into the house.
Ms Nellis went outside to find help because Mrs Deery needed urgent
medical attention. She met Otto
Schlindwein and he went into the house.
After he had seen Mrs Deery, Mr
Schlindwein said that she needed an ambulance.
Ms Nellis ran up Chamberlain Street in search of a telephone. She went into Mr Donohoe’s house and asked him to call an
ambulance. She went back to her
house and found that Michael Bridge had been brought inside and more people had
arrived.
When the ambulance did not arrive, Ms
Nellis ran back out of the house and approached two soldiers who were standing
outside the house. Ms Nellis
explained that there was a badly wounded woman in the house and asked if they
could get an ambulance for her. She
asked them to come into the house and said that nothing would happen to them in
the house.
She said that a fair-haired soldier
seemed out of control. He was
generally loud and offensive and used obscene language.
She thinks he had a northern English accent and remembers him saying
‘let the whore bleed to death.’ Ms
Nellis told the soldier about the wounded man who was lying in the back yard and
he said ‘let them all die.’
Ms Nellis saw Alice Long come across the
courtyard of the Rossville Flats. She
was shouting at the soldiers to get an ambulance. Ms Nellis said that the soldiers shouted ‘let them all
fucking well die.’ After some
time, two ambulances arrived and took the injured away.
Ms Nellis spoke to a sergeant about keeping his men under control.
An ambulance finally arrived.
After it had left, three or four soldiers pushed their way into the house
and arrested most of the men who were inside.
The people in the house were marched into William Street.
The soldiers searched the living room.
The fair-haired soldier was using more abusive language. The dark soldier told him to shut up. Finally they left.
5.1.2
General
Ford
Ms Nellis went to try and find out where her brother and brother in law were being taken. She walked to the junction of Chamberlain Street and Harvey Street and encountered a senior army officer whom she thinks was General Ford. Ms Nellis said that General Ford considered himself too important to be bothered with her problems and brushed her aside. There were reporters with General Ford and she told them about the arrests.
5.1.3
Colonel
Wilford
Ms Nellis said that she approached
another officer on William Street. She
thinks that he was Colonel Wilford and said that he was easier to approach.
He told her to watch herself and to look for her brother at Victoria
barracks.
5.2
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES AND WOUNDED
5.2.1
33
Chamberlain Street
Ms Nellis said that none of the soldiers offered any medical assistance. She said that the soldiers who had gone into the house were generally abusive and used obscene language.
5.3
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF NICRA
5.3.1
1972
statements
Ms Nellis said that she made her statements because she felt that she should make a statement about what had happened.
She made a statement to the Civil Rights
Association and the police. She was
not asked to appear at the Widgery Tribunal and did not expect to be called.
She was not surprised not to be called because she thought that it was
only dealing with those who had been killed.
5.4.1
General Ford
Ms Nellis said that she met General Ford on Chamberlain Street. She said that he was wearing a wine coloured beret. She said that he brushed her aside and was more interested in talking to the reporters. Mr Lawson said that he has no instructions from General Ford about this incident.
5.3.2
1972
statements
Ms Nellis’s statement to the RUC says that General Ford had told her to move on as she was in danger from shooting. Ms Nellis said that this was inaccurate. She had noticed the mistake when she got back from the police station but she said that at the time she was very naive and did not bother to correct it. She does not remember being asked to read the statement or make corrections. She said that her first statement is more reliable.
In her NICRA statement Ms Nellis said
that she had told a soldier outside her house about their treatment and he had
told her to go to the barracks. She
said that she had met another officer who had listened to her and told her to go
to the barracks. Ms Nellis agreed
that she had not made a complaint about General Ford in that statement.
5.3.3
RUC
report
Ms Nellis was asked about a report written by Detective Sergeant Dorset about her brother’s arrest. Sergeant Dorset wrote that the sisters said that their brother George was in the house all the time and when their mother said she had seen him running down Chamberlain Street, one had said ‘trust your mother to let you down.’ Ms Nellis said that she does not think that this is correct. She had never seen a crowd running down Chamberlain Street so she would not have been able to comment on whether it was accurate or not.
5.3.4
33
Chamberlain Street
Ms Nellis said that she could not say whether the people were swearing at the soldiers who entered 33 Chamberlain Street. She said that there was no bad language from civilians in her presence.
Ms Nellis said that the house was
searched after the men had been taken from the house.
She said that it was definitely the same two soldiers who came back to
search the house.
6
MARGARET NELLIS’S EVIDENCE
6.1
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL
6.1.1
Chamberlain
Street
Ms Nellis watched the march and then went home. She had been home for a while when she heard a rumpus outside in the distance. She heard cracking noises which seemed to come from the north end of Rossville Street and William Street.
6.1.2
33
Chamberlain Street
Shortly after she arrived home, a surge
of people came into her house. She
realised that she did not know most of the people.
This seemed to happen quickly. She
saw a man bringing a wounded woman into the house.
Ms Nellis said that she was not aware of what was going on outside but
more and more people came into the house for shelter.
Ms Nellis said that her sister Anna went
to telephone for an ambulance for Mrs Deery.
Anna approached two soldiers at the back of an APC to ask them if they
could hurry the ambulances up. The
soldiers had an unpleasant attitude.
Mrs Deery was taken away.
The Army came into the house and arrested all the men there.
They were made to line up in Chamberlain Street and marched up to William
Street. Then the house was
searched. Ms Nellis said that she
thinks that some of the soldiers who searched the house had come out of the
second APC. The ambulance had gone
before the second APC arrived.
6.1.3
General
Ford
Ms Nellis said that General Ford shrugged them off so they went to the police station to see why their brother had been taken out of the house.
6.2
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS
6.2.1
General
Ford
Ms Nellis said that General Ford could
have made time for her and Anna because he was not too busy to be able to speak
to reporters.
6.2.2
RUC report
Ms Nellis said that she does not recall
her mother being present at their meeting with Sergeant Dorset.
She said that she would not have said ‘trust your mother to let you
down.’
7
GEORGE
NELLIS’S EVIDENCE
7.1
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL
7.1.1
Chamberlain Street
Mr Nellis said that as he moved towards his mother’s house, the march had not arrived at the end of William Street. At the time that he started to move down Chamberlain Street, the march was about 10 yards from the junction of Chamberlain Street and William Street.
Mr Nellis went inside his mother’s
house. He sat for 10 to 20 minutes
and then heard the sound of a large crowd of people running past the house in
Chamberlain Street in a panic.
Mr Nellis stepped outside the house and
saw a continuous flow of people who were in a panic, moving down Chamberlain
Street. He heard the sound of
bullets striking high up on the last three houses in Chamberlain Street.
He could not tell where the bullets where coming from.
7.1.2
Rossville Flats car park
Mr Nellis said that he began to run in the same direction as the crowd that was running down Chamberlain Street. He became aware of a body of a boy of about 14 or 15 years old lying in the Rossville Flats car park. Mr Nellis said that another man stopped alongside the body and said ‘he is dead.’
Mr Nellis said that he moved towards the Rossville Flats and saw Mrs Deery. He thinks that he was in the courtyard for three minutes. He did not see the soldiers or APCs.
7.1.3
33 Chamberlain Street
Mr Nellis went back to his mother’s house. He thinks that there were about six people in the house. There was a knock on the door and two men came in carrying Mrs Deery. Mr Nellis said that more people came in along with her.
Mr Nellis went upstairs to hide his
camera. He said that he would be in
for a rough time if the Army found it. His
instinct was to hide it because it was evidence.
He said that he had been taking pictures from the first civil rights
march through to Bloody Sunday.
When Mr Nellis went downstairs there
were two soldiers in the house and they were making abusive comments about Mrs
Deery and Michael Bridge. One
soldier said ‘let them bleed.’ Mr
Nellis said that two soldiers ordered everybody out of the house.
The men were rounded up and marched up Chamberlain Street with their
hands on their heads.
7.1.4
Arrest
Mr Nellis said that when the arrestees
reached the top of Chamberlain Street. They
were told to crouch down, face the wall and keep their hands over their heads.
He cannot recall seeing an army vehicle in Chamberlain Street.
Mr Nellis said that when he was crouched by the wall with his hands on his head a soldier with a Scottish accent who he knows to be Soldier 12 The soldier approached Mr Nellis from behind and told him that he was injured and had shot four people in Belfast and had enjoyed watching one of them die slowly. He also said that Mr Nellis would not see his wife again and that he would shoot him that night.
At the time, he was told to face the
wall and not to move so he could not see if there were any other soldiers in the
vicinity. An army lorry arrived to
take them away. Two soldiers got in
and sat in the back of the lorry. He
was taken to Fort George.
7.1.5
Fort
George
Mr Nellis said that he was led into a hangar like building through a small doorway. There were two rows of coiled barbed wire which he was told to stand up against and to hold onto the wire. He thinks he had to stand there for 20 minutes.
Mr Nellis said that there were large,
aggressive dogs inside the hangar on long leashes that were barking all the
time. The soldiers handling the
dogs would let them run close to him and then pull them back again. This was a continuous process.
Mr Nellis was ordered not to let his hands drop.
He said that he saw one man who did and was then beaten by soldiers on
the arm. After a while he was
ordered to go into another hangar and to sit down on some seats.
Another batch of people was led in.
Mr Nellis said that he did not run the
gauntlet but he learned that the people who had arrived before his group had.
Mr Nellis was made to stand next to
Soldier 12. His name was written on
the black board with something like ‘riotous behaviour.’
Mr Nellis was questioned by the RUC officer at the desk who took his
details. The officer told him not
to get involved. He assumed that
what he meant by this was not to get angry with the soldiers. Mr Nellis said that he cannot say from the arrest photograph
whether Soldier 12 is the same man who threatened to shoot him.
He said that he had the same accent as the soldier who had threatened
him.
Mr Nellis said that somebody who had
been arrested had a badly gashed hand and when he asked for a plaster a soldier
walked over and hit him hard, at least twice over the face with his fist.
7.1.6
Complaint
to RUC
Mr Nellis went to Victoria RUC barracks the following day to make a formal complaint about the arrests and treatment in custody. In the report that was compiled Mr Nellis had said that the soldier he was photographed with at Fort George is the soldier who threatened him.
7.2
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES AND WOUNDED
7.2.1
Threat
from soldier
Mr Nellis said that the soldier who threatened him had been wounded in Belfast. The statement of the soldier concerned said ‘I had been shot in the leg myself.’ Mr Nellis agreed that he would have had no means of knowing this if the soldier had not told him so.
7.2.2
Civil
Rights Marches
Mr Nellis took photographs on the civil rights marches. He said that he had never seen civilian gunmen at the civil rights marches.
7.2.3
Rossville
Flats car park
Mr Nellis said that he did not see any specific injury or
blood on the young man lying in the car park.
He remembers that there were a substantial number of people running when
he saw the young man. He placed the
young man close to the entrance to Chamberlain Street. Mr Nellis said that he was aware through
the TV coverage that Jack Duddy had been killed in this area.
He does not think that the TV coverage had blended into his recollection.
He said that he was never aware of individual cases of those killed and
wounded on Bloody Sunday.
7.2.4
Arrest
Mr Nellis said that he had taken photographs of the march and he had not been involved in anything that would irate the military presence. He said that nobody had dared to confront the soldiers who went into his mother’s house.
The soldier who arrested Mr Nellis did
not accuse him of anything. Mr
Nellis cannot recollect whether he looked at his hands.
The soldier had no reason for speaking to him in a threatening way.
He said that arrest was never mentioned until he saw the arrest report.
Mr Nellis was never cautioned at any
time, except when his photograph was taken.
7.3
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS
7.3.1
Chamberlain
Street
Mr Nellis said that he was not present when the rioting was taking place in William Street. He was not part of the group that ran down Chamberlain Street.
Mr Nellis said that the first gunfire he
heard that day was as he stepped outside his mother’s house.
He said that he has a clear memory of bullets striking his mother’s
house and the two houses next to it. He
said that there were two bursts of gunfire and possibly three or four bullets.
Mr Nellis said that it was not the shots he heard, but the sound of
something hitting the eaves level of houses.
7.3.2
Police
Report
Mr Nellis does not agree with the
policeman’s record of his conversation with him when he made his complaint.
7.3.3
Soldier 12
Mr Nellis thinks that it was probably
Soldier 12 who threatened him. Mr
Glasgow suggested that he was wrong. Mr
Nellis said that his recollection about the story of the soldier’s time in
Belfast is reliable.
7.3.4
Fort
George
Mr Nellis said that there was no violence offered to him on the lorry. He said that he does not recall anybody being beaten on the lorry but said that he did not look around too much.
Mr Nellis said the business of letting the dogs out on the leash went on for quite a large percentage of the time.
7.4
FURTHER QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL
7.4.1
1972 statement
Mr Nellis said that he does not know why
he did not mention the shots that hit the eaves of the houses in Chamberlain
Street or seeing someone fall in the Rossville Flats car park in his 1972
statement.
8
WILLIAM DILLON’S EVIDENCE
Mr Dillon was a 15-year-old schoolboy.
8.1
QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL
8.1.1
Barrier
14
Mr Dillon was with Neil McCafferty
halfway along the William Street when Mr McCafferty grabbed hold of a huge civil
rights banner that some other people were carrying and the two carried the
banner to the junction of Rossville Street.
He has no recollection of anyone saying
the marchers should make their way to Free Derry Corner. Mr Dillon became aware that there were a lot of older men who
were pushing their way to the front of the marchers.
After a couple of minutes standing in
William Street, some of the people at the front of the crowd started throwing
stones at the soldiers behind the barricade.
The soldiers started firing rubber bullets and a crowd of people left at
this stage. Mr Dillon stayed and
started throwing stones. This
carried on for 10 minutes and he saw the water cannon being brought forward.
Mr Dillon started to run with Mr McCafferty and the banner tore in half.
Mr Dillon threw his half of the banner towards barrier 14 and he saw Neil
McCafferty throw his towards the barrier on television footage later.
8.1.2
Arrest
About 15 to 20 minutes from the time
that Mr Dillon was at the barrier, he walked down Chamberlain Street.
He said that, apart from himself and John Doherty, High Street and
Chamberlain Street were empty.
The first people that he saw was a
couple of soldiers sitting at the corner. He
saw one soldier down on his hunkers looking towards Rossville Flats.
Mr Dillon said the soldier saw him and immediately pointed his rifle at
him. Mr Dillon bolted and ran
towards the waste ground towards the Rossville Flats.
He could see two APCs towards the flats and realised that he was behind
the soldiers instead of in front of them. He
said that it is possible that one of the APCs could have driven away.
Suddenly a big soldier came out into the
waste ground, from the wall that runs along the backyards of Chamberlain Street.
He thinks the soldier was a sergeant.
The soldier grabbed Mr Dillon by the scruff of his collar, nearly lifted
him off the ground and ran across the waste ground towards William Street.
Mr Dillon said that the soldier was strong and he felt like he was
floating because his feet hardly touched the ground.
The soldier kept yelling, ‘run you bastard.’
He threw Mr Dillon at some soldiers who were standing with other people
who had been arrested and were lined up along the wall at the corner of
Rossville Street and William Street.
Mr Dillon was asked about David
Capper’s evidence. Mr Capper said
that he had heard a youth ask a soldier for permission to cross the waste
ground. That another officer with a
pistol challenged the youth to stop and a private hit the youth on the side of
his head with a rifle. Mr Dillon
said that he did not stop to ask the soldiers if he could go and was not
conscious of being hit on the head or hearing anyone telling him to stop.
Mr Dillon said that he does not think he
is the person that Ciaran Donnelly referred to who ran towards the APC from the
courtyard of the Rossville Flats.
Mr Dillon said that there were about 20
other people lined up along the wall at the corner of William Street and there
was a lot of roaring and shouting by the soldiers.
The people were all told to keep their head down.
Mr Dillon was put into a lorry.
Winnie O’Brien was also at the back of the lorry.
He said that she was continually cursing the soldiers.
Mr Dillon said that he told her to stop because each time she did it ,
the soldiers would kick him.
A smaller soldier who was not much older
than Mr Dillon kept booting him in the back with his feet. He also hit him twice with his baton. Halfway through the journey, the soldier pulled Mr Dillon’s
head up and said ‘we are going to throw you out now.’ Two other soldiers helped to drag Mr Dillon to the tailgate
and turned him around so that he was facing out towards the road.
He was stood there for a few seconds and they made as if they were about
to push him out of the lorry. Then
they threw him back down into the lorry.
8.1.3
Fort
George
Mr Dillon said that he was slapped and
hit on the back with a baton as he got out of the lorry.
He was taken into an area that had been cordoned off with army camouflage
screens.
After waiting for about an hour and a
half, Mr Dillon was taken into a small room and photographed and fingerprinted
by the police. Mr Dillon does not
remember seeing the soldier he was photographed with.
The soldier’s statement says that Mr Dillon was arrested for kicking a
soldier. He was never told that he
was arrested for kicking a soldier and he said that he did not kick a soldier.
Mr Dillon said that he was not given any reason for being arrested.
He assumed that it was for throwing stones.
Mr Dillon said that the next day, his
back and side were covered with bruises from the beating he had received during
the arrest.
8.2
QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES AND WOUNDED
8.2.1
Waste
ground
Mr Dillon said that he was not conscious
of any fire being directed towards him. The
soldiers on the waste ground were not showing any signs of concern or actions
which would suggest they were being fired on.
8.3
QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS
8.3.1
Barrier
14
Mr Dillon agreed
that there could have been a delay between the soldiers being stoned and their
responding with rubber bullets. He
said there could have been a couple of minutes delay.
8.3.2
Arrest
Mr Dillon said that the soldier he is
photographed with in Fort George is not the one that caught him in the waste
ground.
Mr Dillon said that he was kneeling on
his knees with his hands on the back of his head inside the lorry.
He said that there were a lot of people in the lorry.
He said that it is possible that other people got booted as well as
himself when Mrs O’Brien cursed the soldiers.
Mr Dillon said that he was kicked and knocked about all the way to Fort
George.
Mr Dillon agreed that there could have
been firing when he was dragged to the APC and he had not heard it.
8.3.2
Fort George
Mr Dillon said that he did not ask for
anything at Fort George. He did not
receive any medical attention after Fort George.
He said that he had no broken bones and was more glad to be home.
8.4
FURTHER
QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL
8.4.1
Waste
ground
Mr Clarke said that Mr Morris who took
the photograph of Mr Dillon being dragged to the APC is the same as David
Capper’s.
9
JOSEPH McCOLGAN’S EVIDENCE
9.1
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL
9.1.1
Arrest
Mr McColgan finished his shift at
Duponts at 4pm and got a lift to Derry. He
said that he was walking back to the Bogside when he met Charlie Glenn at the
Diamond. He said that Mr Glenn had
blood on his uniform and told him that he had helped carry a body out of the
Bogside.
Mr McColgan said that they both walked
past Stephenson’s bakery when they were surrounded by paratroopers who trained
their guns on him and marched him at gun point towards the derelict buildings on
the southside of William Street.
Mr McColgan was searched and a para took his watch, ring and wallet. He was told to kneel on the waste ground. His head was pushed forward and told not to raise it.
Mr McColgan said that he was one of the
last to be put in the back of a 3 tonne lorry.
He said that one soldier had a rifle with a pickaxe handle and another
had a baton. He said that he
thought the soldiers were drinking beer.
9.1.2
Fort George
Mr McColgan said that the soldiers had
formed a corridor by lining up on either side of a three-foot gap.
He thinks they were from two different regiments because they were not
all wearing the paras’ distinctive barrier.
He had to run in between the soldiers who had sticks and batons.
Some soldiers appeared to be holding broom handles.
Those in front of Mr McColgan ran the gauntlet towards the door of the
building. As they ran, soldiers
would strike them and if they fell they were beaten until they got up.
Mr McColgan said that he was beaten on the back and suffered bruising.
Mr McColgan recalls that a side of the
building was cordoned off by a chain-linked fence.
He said that the west side of the building was crowded with at least 100
people and he met his brother Maurice there.
There was a part of the building that was screened off from them.
The para that he had seen patrolling on the walkway came into the
compound and grabbed his brother and dragged him to the toilets.
Mr McColgan said that after a few
minutes his brother came back from the toilets and was crying and distressed.
He said that he had been beaten and had been taken away because a soldier
thought he had been looking at him. He
had said that his brother told him that the soldier said ‘You might think that
you will be able to remember me, so here is something to make you forget it.’
He saw groups of paras arriving from the
Bogside. They began to select
people at random who they claimed had been rioting.
Some man had ‘IRA’ tattooed on his knuckles. A para grabbed him, pulled up his sleeve and saw a republican
tattoo on his right arm. The para
took out a knife and said that he would cut out the tattoo for a souvenir.
The man was distressed and went down on the ground, as if he had fainted.
Mr McColgan was taken to the other half
of the room. He waited in the queue
for a policeman to take details. He
was made to approach a table when it became free and a para told the policeman
that Mr McColgan had been throwing stones in the car park of the Rossville
Flats. Mr McColgan told the
policeman that it was all lies and the policeman told him to shut up. He tried to tell the policeman that his property had been
stolen and the policeman said it had nothing to do with him.
Mr McColgan has given a name of the
soldier who took him to the desk. Mr
Clarke said that it did not match the name of Soldier E who he is photographed
with but did match the soldier photographed as the arresting officer of his
brother, Soldier 12. Mr McColgan
does not recall being arrested but the policeman cautioned him for riotous
behaviour in the flats. He was then
released.
A few days after Bloody Sunday, Mr
McColgan went to the police station. He
identified his wallet and his watch which had the glass broken but there was no
ring. His wallet had been emptied
of all cash. He chose not to take
the matter further.
Mr McColgan said that he had never been
in trouble with the police or Army before Bloody Sunday.
9.1.3
Conviction
Mr McColgan was convicted in 1990 in the
USA. He was sentenced to 51 months
for attempting to receive a stinger missile and conspiracy to export without a
licence.
Mr McColgan said that he was not a
member of the IRA in 1972 and was never a member at any time.
9.1.4
Martin
McGuinness
Mr McColgan confirmed that he married
Martin McGuinness’s sister, Geraldine in 1973.
He said that she had been his girlfriend in 1972 and that he knew Martin
McGuinness then. He was not aware
that Martin McGuinness was a member of the IRA in 1972. He said that he has not discussed the events of Bloody Sunday
with Martin McGuinness.
Mr McColgan said that he could not help
on the position of the Provisionals towards the march on Bloody Sunday or what
activities did or did not take place on the day.
9.2
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS
9.2.1
1972 statement
Mr McColgan made a statement in 1972 at
the Old City Hotel building. He
said that Kevin McCallion and Fulvio Grimaldi were at the same place.
9.2.2
Arrest
Mr McColgan said that he heard that
there was trouble in the Bogside when he was at Dupont and the evening shift
started to arrive at 3:40pm. Mr
Elias said that the trouble at the barricades did not start until 3:40pm.
Mr McColgan said that the journey from Dupont to the Bogside would take
about 40 minutes.
Mr McColgan disagreed with Charles Glenn’s account of their arrests. He said that he was not put into a taxi and driven around the block. He said that he was going to the Bogside because he was inquisitive.
Mr McColgan said that he could not say whether both of the soldiers in the back of the lorry had been drinking. He heard one bottle being opened and could smell beer.
Mr McColgan said that he was not subjected to any violence on the lorry.
9.2.3
Fort
George
Mr McColgan received no medical attention after running the gauntlet. He said that he had been hit several times.
He has a clear recollection of meeting
his brother, Maurice. He does not recollect seeing his brother screwing up a cup
of tea that the soldier had fed to the dog.
Mr McColgan said that he recalls seeing his brother being grabbed and
dragged to the toilets.
Mr Lawson said that Maurice McColgan’s
account is of not seeing Mr McColgan until after he had been interviewed by the
RUC officer which was after the assault in the toilets.
9.2.4
Geraldine McGuinness
Mr McColgan said that he saw his girlfriend later that evening.
He said that he did not know whether she had been on the march and that
he had no reason to ask her.
9.2.4
Conviction
Mr McColgan said that he was not
convicted of anything else before 1990. Mr
Lawson asked him about a reference in Toby Harnden’s book, which said that he
was a ‘former prisoner’ and ‘weapons expert.’
Mr McColgan described it as fictitious nonsense.
Mr McColgan said that he had never been
a member of the republican movement or the provisional wing of the IRA.
He said that he never had any association with any organisation of that
kind. He cannot help whether Martin
McGuinness was on the march.
10
JAMES O’DOHERTY’S EVIDENCE
10.1
QUESTIONS
ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL
10.1.1
Arrest
Mr O’Doherty saw the APCs come through the barricade. He ran and was overtaken by the APCs which drove down Little James Street and Rossville Street. He said that there were APCs in front of and behind him. He decided to run across the waste ground and slipped, falling face down. Mr O’Doherty said that immediately as he tried to raise himself up again he was hit hard on the back of the head with what he thought was a rifle butt.
Mr O’Doherty was dragged by his hair
and clothes across the waste ground back towards Rossville Street.
One soldier was giving Mr O’Doherty general anti-Irish abuse, another
said ‘you are dealing with the fucking paras now.’
A taller soldier said ‘I saved your
life, that bastard was going to blow your head off.’
He said that this soldier seemed angry at the way the other soldier was
treating him. As Mr O’Doherty was
being dragged across the waste ground, he stumbled and fell and the smaller
soldier hit him on his right hand and the palm of his hand started to bleed.
Mr O’Doherty was thrown into the back
of an APC and the doors were shut. There
were six other soldiers already seated in the APC.
They kicked Mr O’Doherty and one was wearing a visor which he was using
to head butt Mr O’Doherty with.
After 5 to 10 minutes, the rear doors of
the APC opened and Charlie Canning was thrown in.
Mr O’Doherty said that Mr Canning was beaten as well.
He heard what he thought was an officer’s voice behind the back doors
who shouted ‘who are you holding in there – let them out.’
The doors were opened and they were let out.
Mr O’Doherty was stood against the
gable wall of Kells Walk. He became
aware of somebody on his right walking towards the cathedral.
He only got a glimpse of the man because he was not allowed to turn his
head. Somebody shouted ‘stop
him’ and Mr O’Doherty said that the man was stopped and questioned and then
apparently allowed to carry on. The
same voice shouted out ‘I told you to stop that fucking man.’
Mr O’Doherty came under the impression that the man was dragged into
one of the houses facing William Street. He
could hear somebody squealing and shouting from the area and recalls a priest
shouting ‘he has been shot in the arm.’
Mr O’Doherty was taken to stand
against a wire mesh fence. He was told to put his hands over his head, hold onto
the fence and count the squares on the fence.
A soldier came back and asked how many squares there were.
When Mr O’Doherty said that he did not know he was sworn at, hit and
kicked again. A lorry arrived and
Mr O’Doherty was ordered into it.
Mrs O’Brien kept flicking blood at the
soldiers. Mr O’Doherty said that
the soldiers would take this out on him and he was butted by a soldier wearing a
face visor. He was punched and
kicked. He said that the journey to
Fort George seemed to last for ever. He
thinks that it took about 30 minutes.
10.1.2
Fort George
Mr O’Doherty said that when the vehicle arrived at Fort George, the