BLOODY SUNDAY INQUIRY Week 25

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20 - 24 MARCH 2001

This week the Tribunal heard from Michael Bradley who was shot in the car park of the Rossville Flats.  They also heard from John Nash, whose brother William was killed and father, Alexander was injured on Bloody Sunday also gave evidence.

Celine Brolly gave evidence about her husband, Patrick being injured by a bullet whilst they were inside one of the Rossville Flats.  Antoinette Coyle described how soldiers treated her when she tried to get ambulances for injured people.  A tape recording was played which had Fulvio Grimaldi recorded when shots were fired into the flat of John McCrudden’s family.

A full transcript of proceedings is available at http://www.bloody-sunday-inquiry.org.uk

1.                  MICHAEL BRADLEY’S EVIDENCE

1.1            QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

1.1.1       Barrier 14

Mr Bradley carried on walking along William Street because he was in front of the lorry and did not realise that it had turned down Rossville Street.  He was several rows back from the front of the march.

Mr Bradley thinks that he was at the barrier for about 15 minutes before the soldiers came through.  He was spluttering and coughing because of the effects of the CS gas.

He went down Macaris Lane and ran along the back of Chamberlain Street.  He believes that the APCs were entering as he made his way towards the car park.

1.1.2       Rossville Flats car park

Mr Bradley ran towards the gaps between Blocks 2 and 3 of the Rossville Flats.  When he reached the gap, a woman told him that a young boy was lying dead in the car park.  Mr Bradley went back through the gap into the car park.  He crouched behind the low wall in front of Block 2.  He said that at this time there was still a small number of people trying to get through the gaps between the flats.

Mr Bradley remembers an army vehicle in the car park.  He said that when he saw the body of Jack Duddy, he started screaming and running at the soldiers.  He said that he was standing six feet away from the low wall in front of Block 2.  He was moving his hands in a rapid, beckoning motion.

Mr Bradley has given a number of accounts which refer to him picking up stones.  He thinks that he may have been influenced by other people’s accounts.  He said that he has no recollection of throwing any stones or bending down to pick up stones.   Mr Bradley said that everything happened quickly and that he does not make an apology if he did throw a stone.

Mr Bradley was taken through a number of interviews he had given where he said that he had grabbed stones or pieces of brick.

Mr Bradley said that he felt a heavy thud to his right upper arm, just above the elbow, and thought he had been hit by a rubber bullet.  He was not conscious that he had been hit in his right and left forearms and across his abdomen until he reached the house in Joseph Place.  Mr Clarke said that the medical expert evidence said that it was not possible to discern whether he was shot by one bullet or more than one bullet and from which direction the bullets came.  Mr Bradley said that there were two soldiers in front of the APC and that they were close enough to be able to see that he was unarmed.

1.2             QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

Mr Glasgow said that the soldiers are not suggesting that Mr Bradley was armed with a nail bomb, brick or any lethal weapon.

1.2.1       Rossville Flats car park

Mr Bradley said that there was no one between him and the soldier.

He recalls just one incident of intense pain.  He does not remember feeling as if he had been punched in the arm twice.

1.2.2       Stewards

Mr Bradley said that he does not remember collaborating on the book by Fulvio Grimaldi.  The book was written when Mr Bradley was in hospital.  He said that he did not meet Mr Grimaldi until 25 years later.  The book claims that Mr Bradley said he saw stewards chasing men away from the march who would not come into it peacefully.  Mr Bradley said that he did not see anyone put out of the march.

1.3             FURTHER QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

1.3.1       Injuries

Mr Bradley agreed that there was a large entrance and exit wound on his right forearm and a small entrance and exit wound on his left forearm.

2                    CELINE BROLLY’S EVIDENCE

Mrs Brolly said that she had difficulty remembering many of the events of Bloody Sunday because she has suffered a stroke in the intervening years.

2.1             QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

2.1.1       William Street

Mrs Brolly recognised Peggy Deery who was walking along William Street on the march.  She did not see her again that day.

Mrs Brolly thinks that the water cannon was brought up to the top of Rossville Street.

2.1.2       Eden Place/Pilots Row waste ground

Mrs Brolly said that her memory of seeing a middle aged man kicked, punched and battered by three soldiers is now blurry.  She thinks that the incident took place in the lane running along the backs of the Chamberlain Street houses.  She recalls that Father Daly called to the Knight of Malta who was running to the aid of the man.

2.1.3       Rossville Flats car park

Mrs Brolly said that a soldier with a black moustache was standing in the middle of the car park.  She said that she saw the soldier shoot a boy dead.  She did not see him actually fire the gun but saw him pointing it.

2.1.4       Inside the Rossville Flats

Mrs Brolly was in a flat on the second floor of Block 2, with her husband Patsy and their daughter.  She could see soldiers scattered all over the waste ground and car park.  She saw Father Daly’s group carrying Jack Duddy towards Chamberlain Street.  When Mrs Brolly saw Father Daly she shouted 'someone’s hurt' at one of the soldiers standing at the south end of Chamberlain Street.  The next moment, Patsy threw her on the floor and told her that the soldier was pointing his gun at them.  A bullet smashed a hole in the window and Patsy was wounded on the top of his head.  Mrs Brolly said that the soldier who fired the bullet that hit her husband was 5 foot 8 inches and blond.

Mrs Brolly ran out to get a priest and an ambulance.  As she ran along the balcony, the soldiers started to shoot at her.  Two men threw her to the floor at the lifts of the flat.  They kept her there with 40 other people who were lying on their stomachs.  She said the soldiers were firing at anything that moved.  Mrs Brolly’s sister in law, Peggy Brolly, came out looking for her.  She was waving a white flag.

2.1.5       City Walls

Mrs Brolly saw soldiers on the City Walls.  She thought that the soldiers were officers because of their uniforms.  One appeared to be giving orders to others.  She could not see what or at whom they were firing shots.

2.2             QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

2.2.1       Rossville Flats

Mrs Brolly said that she thinks Mr McGill was inside the flat when her husband was shot.  Mr Lawson said that Mr McGill’s 1972 statement suggests that he went inside the flat after being told about Mr Brolly’s injury.  Mrs Brolly said that there was another old man inside the flat.

She was told of the shooting of Barney McGuigan and Paddy Doherty before she saw the soldiers in the car park.

The blond soldier who came from behind the APC was swearing at her.  She thought at the time that a rubber bullet had been fired.

She agrees that she was mistaken in identifying Duncan Clarke as the middle-aged man who was beaten by the soldiers.

2.2.2       City Walls

Mrs Brolly said that there were four people on the City Walls.  She had not mentioned the soldiers on the walls in her 1972 statement.  She said that flashes came into her mind and she remembered this after talking to others.

3          JOHN GLENN’S EVIDENCE

3.1             QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

3.1.1       Barrier 14

Mr Glenn saw people at the front trying to pull open the barricade.  He said that after that stones started to fly.  He saw someone throw a pole.  He said that he heard a soldier asking people to leave the area.  He said that, in his opinion, there was always a small nucleus of people who would start trouble.

Mr Glenn heard the revving of engines.  He said the soldiers seemed to be in a state of readiness for trouble.  There were 40 to 50 people in the area and around the top end of Chamberlain Street at this time.

3.1.2 View from the gable end of Chamberlain Street

Mr Glenn left barrier 14 before the soldiers went through.  He said that he was not conscious of the soldiers going down Rossville Street.  When he reached the gable end of Chamberlain Street, the place was almost deserted.  He agreed that it is possible that he waited for a while in the hallway of a house in Chamberlain Street and that when he ran again, people had already made their escape.

Mr Glenn ran to the bottom of Chamberlain Street.  He saw people running through the alleyways.  He saw a soldier jump out of an APC on the Eden Place/Pilot Row waste ground and raise his rifle to his  right shoulder.  Mr Glenn said that he is sure it was a rifle.  He saw the soldier fire south up Rossville Street and heard two shots and saw the rifle recoil twice.

The soldier was about 10 to 15 yards from the back of the Chamberlain Street houses.  He could not see who the soldier was firing at.  He said that, at the time, he had the impression that the soldier was shooting at random targets.  He did not see any other soldiers firing in this area.  He thinks that he focused on 1 soldier because he was not conscious of seeing any other APCs or soldiers.

3.1.3            Rossville Flats car park

Mr Glenn said that people were trying to get through the gaps between Blocks 2 and 3.  Some people were falling and being trampled on.  He tried to get through the gap and heard a thudding sound and saw the splinter of concrete bouncing off the wall of the stairwell at the south-east gable of Block 2 about 15 feet from the ground.  He thinks that these shots may have come from the City walls,

3.2             QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

3.2.1       Barrier 14

Mr Glenn said that there was an inevitability about the start of a riot.  He said that what he meant by ‘everyone had booked their place’ was that there was a certain amount of excitement to when the riot would start.

3.2.2       Waste ground

Mr Glenn was not aware of baton rounds being fired by soldiers getting out of the APC.  He could be wrong about the soldier firing rifle shots immediately as he jumped out of the APC.

3.2.3       City Walls

Mr Glenn agreed that it was possible that shots he heard on the stairwell came from car park rather than the city walls.

4                    THOMAS DAWE’S EVIDENCE

4.1             QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

4.1.1       William Street

Mr Dawe saw youths throwing stones at barrier 14 and soldiers firing rubber bullets in return.  Mr Dawe wanted to go down Chamberlain Street to get to his mother in laws house.  He said that he took a piece of corrugated iron from a shop front and used it as a shield to try and get across the street, safely.  He said that some of the men behind the sheet wanted to use it as a shield to throw stones from.

4.1.2       Chamberlain Street

Mr Dawe ran down Chamberlain Street.  He said that he was two thirds of the way down when he heard the first high velocity shots.  It was single, intermittent shooting from the direction of Rossville Street.

4.1.3       South of the Rossville Flats

Mr Dawe went to the gap between Blocks 2 and 3 because the shooting seemed to be coming from Rossville Street.  He remembers seeing a number of wounded people at the south of the flats.

Mr Dawe saw a body by the telephone box.  The body was lying on its stomach.  Mr Dawe said that his face was turned away from him.

He could see people between the flats and Free Derry Corner.  People in Rossville Street were lying on the ground and he described them as ducking down as if they were being shot at.

When he was in front of the canopy of Block 2 he saw a shot which came from Glenfada Park.

4.1.4            Joseph Place

Mr Dawe said that clods of earth and grass were being churned up by shots that hit the ground in between the two blocks of Joseph Place.  He had to force some women to get past the gap.  There was further shooting and more clods of earth showered down on him. The shots were coming from high up and to his front rather than to his left.  He continued along the alleyway.

4.1.5       Columbs Wells

Mr Dawe saw an ambulance taking wounded people away.  People were taking injured people into a house.  He saw three people carrying an older person into the house.  He saw two bodies in a four-door saloon car.  He saw a third person put into the car.

4.1.6       Joseph Place

Mr Dawe crossed back into the alley behind Joseph Place.  He saw a teenager who was motionless except for his left ankle and foot which were twitching.  A woman screamed at him to go and get the injured boy.  He began to crawl west on his stomach towards the body.  As he crawled towards the body, three or four shots came from his right and hit the gravel which he felt hit his head and face.

4.1.7       1972 statement

In the intervening years he may have forgotten the arrests that were made.

He does not know why there is no reference to going to Columbs Wells or to finding a wounded person being put into a house in the Wells or to the three injured people in the motorcar.

4.2       QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES AND THE WOUNDED

4.2.1       Injured people

Mr Finnegan suggested that Patrick McDaid and Patrick Campbell may have been two of the injured people that he had seen being carried into houses.

Mr Dawe thinks that he tried to help the injured teenager in Joseph Place after, rather than before, he reached Columbs Wells.

He agreed that some of the people he thought were dead could have been taking cover.  The women in Joseph Place assumed that someone had been shot dead.

He agrees that it is possible that he merged the two cars carrying injured people into one.

5                    ALEXANDER McLAUGHLIN’S EVIDENCE

5.1             QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

5.1.1       Chamberlain Street

Mr McLaughlin saw the barrier being moved and ran down Chamberlain Street.  He said that the street was full of people and he had to sidestep around them.  Mr McLaughlin heard a series of bursts of fire.  He thought it sounded like automatic fire and had no idea where the shots came from but said that they sounded as if they came from behind.

5.2             QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES AND THE WOUNDED

5.2.1       Chamberlain Street

Mr McLaughlin said that he got the impression that the shooting was not actually in Chamberlain  Street.  He said that it could have been single shots from different rifles.  He was not sure whether the shooting was from single fire or automatic weapons.  The shots were in rapid succession.

6                    TONY DELPINTO’S EVIDENCE

6.1             QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

6.1.1       Free Derry Corner

Mr Delpinto was at Free Derry Corner when he heard loud cracks.  He turned around and saw APCs in Rossville Street. 

6.1.2       Rossville Flats

Mr Delpinto spent about 10 minutes on the first floor of the Rossville Flats.  He looked out of the veranda and saw the body of Bernard McGuigan.

6.1.3       1972 statement taking procedure

Mr Delpinto gave a statement at St Patrick’s primary school in 1972.  He said that there were dozens of other people giving statements in the assembly hall.  He thinks that the statement was taken by a mixture of him saying what he could remember and the statement taker asking questions.  The statement taker showed him what she had written. 

6.1.4       Machine gun fire

In his 1972 statement, Mr Delpinto said that one of the soldiers who jumped out of an APC used a machine gun.  He now thinks that he would not have known the difference between a machine gun and rapid fire.  He thinks that it is possible that the statement taker at the time also misunderstood him.

6.2             QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

6.2.1       Machine gun

Mr Delpinto was referring to the noise of a machine gun rather than seeing one.

7                    ANTOINETTE COYLE’S EVIDENCE

7.1             QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

7.1.1       Knights of Malta and  First Aid Posts

Miss Coyle said that the First Aid Post that was set up in New Road in 1968 was a permanent post to treat people injured in rioting.  She said that it was not in use on Bloody Sunday.

Miss Coyle was not aware of any First Aid Posts on Bloody Sunday.

Captain Day was the head of the Knights of Malta in Derry.  He notified the RUC that they would be in attendance on the Bloody Sunday march.  Miss Coyle said that normally the Knights of Malta would wear a grey uniform.  On this occasion, they were told to wear a white tunic.  She does not know why they were to wear white.  Miss Coyle said that she met the other Knights of Malta at the shops in Creggan and they were divided by Captain Day into pairs.  This took place before the march started.

She said that when the march set off, she understood that it was to go to the Guildhall.  Miss Coyle thinks that she was partnered with Sophie Marley.

7.1.2       Eden Place/Pilot Row waste ground

Miss Coyle thinks that she was fairly near the front of the march.  She moved east along William Street.  She saw a young man who had been injured in the leg and wanted to go to the Rossville Flats to get water to wash his wound.  They began walking south across the waste ground when she saw a large crowd running and two APCs travelling at great speed.  She told the man to stay calm but he ran away.  One of the APCs veered left  and moved on to the waste ground.

Miss Coyle saw a soldier jump out of an APC and immediately collide with a young man.  Both fell to the ground.  The man ran off and the soldier grabbed at his rifle and went to the first person who was running past and tried to hit them.  The first person who was running past the soldier was a young girl.  The soldier held the barrel of a gun with his hands and swung the rifle like a club.  He hit the young girl in the middle of her back.  The soldier had aimed for the girl’s head but she had ducked down.  The girl staggered but continued running.

7.1.3       Rossville Flats

Miss Coyle and Sophie Marley grabbed the girl and ran to the entrance of Block 2.  They made their way up some steps and went to the first floor of Block 2.  The girl went into one of the houses.

Miss Coyle wanted to go to the injured man in the car park and ran along the balcony of Block 2 and was conscious of chips of concrete flying out of the ledge by her feet.  She could not say where the fire was coming from.  She saw three or four pieces of concrete being chipped away in quick succession.  A man grabbed her by the shoulders from one of the concrete pillars along the balcony.  She stayed in the spot and others had taken cover.  She did not see anyone with a weapon or missile.

7.1.4   South of the Rossville Flats

Miss Coyle got onto Rossville Street and found a man aged about 19 or 20 years old who thought that he had been shot.  She walked him to a house in Joseph Place and he realised that he had not actually been shot.

As she walked towards Joseph Place, she saw the Knight of Malta, Paul McLoughlin kneeling by the side of Bernard McGuigan.  Miss Coyle went inside a house in Joseph Place where she saw Alana Burke.  She came back out of the house to try and find an ambulance.  She ran towards Paul McLoughlin and a group of other people who were hiding in the gap between Blocks 1 and 2 of the Rossville Flats.  Mr McLoughlin shouted to her to take cover as there were shots coming from the walls.

Paul McLoughlin pointed to somebody who was lying in the open between Joseph Place and Block 2.  The man was lying on his front with his head towards Fahan Street East and his legs towards Glenfada Park. 

Paul McLoughlin also showed her another person who had been shot.  She subsequently found out that it was Hugh Gilmour.

Miss Coyle thinks that she and the others hid by the telephone kiosk for about 10 minutes.  She heard the sound of shots and realised that people who had gathered at Free Derry Corner were being shot at.

Miss Coyle saw an APC which seemed to come past the barricade and then reverse back. 

Miss Coyle can be seen in photographs of the group by the telephone box. 

7.1.5            Attempts to find an ambulance

Miss Coyle walked across the Rossville Flats car park towards the south end of Chamberlain Street.  She saw a group of soldiers at the south end of Chamberlain Street and told them that she needed an ambulance.

Miss Coyle was made to stand against a wall and the soldiers told her that they would search her.  Alice Long told the soldiers that three people were injured and needed an ambulance.  Miss Coyle said that the soldiers laughed and jeered.  Alice Long said ‘for Christ’s sake, there is three people dead’ and the soldiers said ‘hip, hip, hooray – there will be more tonight.’ 

Miss Coyle saw an ambulance and asked the soldiers were the driver was.  The soldiers told her that the driver was at the north end of Chamberlain Street.  Miss Coyle went all the way up to High Street and was told there were no ambulance men there.  She went back to the position where the ambulance was and found out that the ambulance men were standing adjacent to the ambulance.  Miss Coyle never discovered why she had been directed to the other end of Chamberlain Street and said that she assumed that this was part of the soldiers’ fun and games.

The women could not get a lift in the back of the ambulance and Alice Long asked the soldier in charge if they could go back to the other side of the flats.  Miss Coyle said that Miss Long spoke to the soldiers very politely in order not to antagonise them. The soldier said that they could but that ‘white coats make great targets.’  Miss Coyle said that she understood by that that they would be shot on the way across.  When they made their way between Blocks 1 and 2 they found out that the ambulances had arrived.

7.2            QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES AND THE WOUNED

7.2.1            Patrick Doherty

Mr Topolski suggested that Miss Coyle was accurate in her description of the position of Patrick Doherty as his head pointed towards the Fahan Street East steps and feet towards Glenfada Park.  Miss Coyle said that she could not be 100 per cent sure but that she does have a memory of a man in this position.

7.3            QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

7.3.1   First Aid Posts

Miss Coyle said that a First Aid Post had been set up in New Street because of fears that injured people would have difficulties in getting over the bridge to Altnagelvin because they would be stopped at the Army checkpoints.

7.3.2   Eden Place/Pilot Row waste ground

Miss Coyle remembers the APCs travelling in at a substantial speed.

The soldier who was hitting people was holding his gun by the barrel and swung it at the girl.  He hit the girl in the back.  Mr Lawson said that he was not expressly challenging Miss Coyle’s evidence.  Miss Coyle said that the soldier had definitely done this.

7.3.3            Rossville Flats

Miss Coyle said that her 1972 evidence that she was on the first floor of Block 2 of the flats is most accurate.  The gunfire was coming in her direction as she ran.  Miss Coyle was very aware of the chips because that was what scared her.   It was the first time that she realised live bullets were being used.  Miss Coyle said that the fact that the concrete was splintering at her feet led her to assume the shots were not coming from the Rossville Flats.  There was definitely no firing from the balcony that she was on.

7.3.4            Attempts to get an ambulance

Mr Lawson suggested that Alice Long’s 1972 statement did not refer to any abuse from the soldiers when they tried to find ambulances.  Mr Hoyt pointed to notes from the Sunday Times archive of an interview with Miss Long which details a very similar account to that given by Miss Coyle.  Captain Day’s statement also corroborates these accounts.  He said that Miss Long had told him that they had tried to get an ambulance through and the paras had just laughed at them and would not let them through. 

Miss Coyle did not hear the paras say to Miss Long ‘we shoot to kill, not to maim.’  She does recall the soldiers laughing when they were trying to find ambulances.

8          JOHN McCRUDDEN’S EVIDENCE

Mr McCrudden was 12 years old at the time of Bloody Sunday.

8.1            QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

8.1.1       Premonitions/warnings

Mr McCrudden said that on the morning of the march, he noticed that various streets in the town were closed.  The soldiers around the area shouted comments like ‘we’ll sort you out today, boys.’

8.1.2            William Street

Mr McCrudden was on the march and his mother took him back to their flats in Block 1 of the Rossville Flats.

8.1.3            Rossville Flats car park

Mr McCrudden saw an APC stop and a soldier get out.  The soldier turned his rifle upside down and started to use it as a baseball bat, clubbing people who were running past.  None of the people fell.

Almost immediately that the APCs arrived in the car park, Mr McCrudden heard the sound of shots coming in ones, twos and threes.  At different times, he could see bullets hitting the walls.  When the soldiers initially came in, he saw bottles and bricks being thrown from the north end of the Rossville Flats.

His attention was caught by a man who managed to run past the soldier who was using his rifle as a baseball bat.  The man was carrying a bottle. He turned and gestured to friends to have a go at the soldiers when he was a few paces away from the gap between Blocks 1 and 2.  He shouted something like ‘let us get the fucking bastards,’ at which point a soldier went down on one knee and fired at the man.  The man fell either on his front or his side.  The man was in his mid twenties.

At about the same time, he saw another man lying in the courtyard, at about 12 or 14 feet from where the man that he had seen shot fell.  In his 1972 statement, Mr McCrudden said that he saw a small crowd gathered around a boy who had been shot in the back in the middle of the car park.  People in the crowd were trying to help the boy and were waving hankies.  A soldier started firing at the group.

8.1.4       Civilian gunman

Around this time he heard some people shouting to someone to put the gun away.  He saw someone holding a pistol on the western side of Chamberlain Street. The man was moving along the gable wall.

8.1.5       Rubble barricade

Mr McCrudden walked to the other side of his flat and looked from the window which overlooked Rossville Street.  He saw two men lying on the ground on the southside of the barricade, with an elderly man.  The elderly man was crouched down and he had the impression that he was trying to move the others.  He saw lumps of dust fly up from the barricade near to the man’s hand.

Mr McCrudden saw a group of three men standing at the southern gable wall of the eastern block of Glenfada Park North.  One of the men pooped his head around the corner to look north up Rossville Street and as he withdrew his head, he saw two lumps fly off the corner of the gable wall.  He assumed the man had been fired at.

8.1.6            Glenfada Park North

Mr McCrudden saw the three men run towards the gap between Glenfada Park North and Glenfada Park South.  The men were shot as they ran along.  He saw them fall and described the position that they fell.  He was not conscious of other in Glenfada Park at this time.

One of the men had been trying to get into the back gate of a flat.  He had one arm over the top of the gate to try and release the hook.  He was shot once while he was on his feet and then a second time which caused him to buckle.

8.1.6       Inside the Rossville Flats

Mr McCrudden went to a downstairs room in his flat.  A man and woman were there and he later learned they were Fulvio Grimaldi and Susan North and had come to use the telephone.

The window, which overlooked Rossville Street, was a rotating window that could be turned upside down.  Whilst Mr Grimaldi was taking photographs, the window revolved around and live shots were fired in through the window.  The first shots came at a time when he was actually taking photographs.   A photograph was shown of the bullet holes in the window.

Mr McCrudden said that the bullets hit the back of the wall and shattered into fragments that went everywhere. Mr McCrudden said that the room became a wreck.  He and his mother and sisters and Mr Grimaldi and Ms North were inside the flat when this was happening. 

Mr Grimaldi had been tape-recording during this and the tape was played to the BSI.  Mr McCrudden’s mother and sisters voices can be heard on the tape.  His mother can be heard saying ‘that is you, for taking the photographs.’ Mr McCrudden said that throughout the shooting he was lying on the ground

8.2             QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES AND WOUNDED

8.2.1       1972 statement

Mr McCrudden agreed that his 1972 statement suggests that the boy he saw in the car park had already been shot before he saw the man with the bottle in his hand.

8.2.2       Rubble barricade

Mr McCrudden said that the older man at the barricade was facing north towards William Street.  He saw bits flying up from the barricade.  The shots appeared to come from William Street.  The window from which he was looking was between the entrance to Block 1 and the rubble barricade.

8.3             QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

8.3.1            Rossville Flats

The soldier who was using his rifle as a club hit more than one person.  He was picking out those closest to him.  The soldier who jumped out of the front passenger seat of the APC was the one who was hitting people with the rifle.

Once soldiers got into their firing positions, something happened and the live gunfire started.  There were different types of noises.  One young man ran out in a threatening way and after he was shot he noticed that someone else had been shot.  Four or five bottles and missiles were thrown at the APCs and smashed.  He did not notice any shooting from that.

8.3.2            Glenfada Park North

Mr McCrudden saw three young men running across Glenfada Park.  He said that they could have been part of the crowd that was running away.  He saw them being shot.  There was a time when he saw three bodies lying on their own.

Mr McCrudden lived in Block 1 of the Flats on the second floor.  He had a restricted view of Glenfada Park North.  He would not have been able to see the north part of Glenfada Park North.  If other people had been running across he would not have seen them because of the angle at which he would have looked.

8.3.3            Rossville Flats

Mr McCrudden thinks that the photographer did something with the catch to release the window.  He swung the window until it was almost upside down.  He remembers the camera had a telephoto lens.

The tape recording recorded a male voice saying ‘put your fucking (gun) up … right back.’  (See BIRW report, week 26, for comments on the accuracy of the transcript.)  Mr McCrudden said that he was not aware of that.  He thinks it is a reference to a civilian gunman at the gable end.  He said that there was a few people shouting.  He was in the upstairs window when he head the gunman being told to put the gun away.  Some people were shouting at the gunman from the flats.  This was before the shots were fired at the window on the other side of the flats.

8.3.4       1972 statement

Mr McCrudden was 12 years old at the time of Bloody Sunday.  The age that is given on his 1972 statement is 14 years old.  Mr McCrudden said that he did not know any reason why anyone would have bumped up his age.

Mr McCrudden does not know why he would not have told people about the civilian gunman in 1972.

There are three points he made in 1972 about Glenfada Park North which he does not remember today.  There is nothing in the statement about the three men at the gable appearing to discuss which way to go.  There is no description of how many of the three men fell and in what order.  Mr McCrudden said that there are certain parts of the day which are a blur but the three men stick out in his head.  He said that he is confident that the description he gave of how and where the three men fell is correct.  He said that the man who was shot twice was standing when he was first shot and then slumped down and was shot a second time.

9                    GERARD COLHOUN’S EVIDENCE

9.1             QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

9.1.1       Eden Place/Pilot Row waste ground

Mr Colhoun saw soldiers lying down on the waste ground.  He said that they were flat on the ground and held their guns in a firing position.  He could not see what they were aiming at. He did not see them open fire and does not know why they were lying on the ground.

9.1.2       Rossville Flats car park

Mr Colhoun saw a young man fall in the car park and assumed he had been shot.  He saw Father Daly and others come out to the man.  He cannot give the precise number of shots but said that there was more than one shot when the boy was hit. 

Mr Colhoun identified Michael Bridge in the photograph which shows a man in front of the APC.  The man ran out from the northeast corner of the car park and was shot in the leg.

Mr Colhoun said that there was a small car close to the gap between Blocks 1 and 2, which was shot to pieces by the Army.  The shots were fired into the car from the gable end of Chamberlain Street.  He heard the shots and heard breaking glass.  A photograph of the group around Jack Duddy shows that the windows of the car in the  background were still intact.  He agreed that this must have happened after Mr Duddy had been shot.

9.2            QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

9.2.1   Waste ground

Mr Colhoun agreed that that there were about 12 to 20 people throwing stones at the soldiers in the waste ground.  This did not go on for very long.

9.2.2       Rossville Flats car park

Mr Colhoun said that, after Jack Duddy was shot, Michael Bridge left his group and went out.  He has no recollection of Michael Bradley going out. He looked up to the flats and did not see or hear anything thrown from the flats.

Mr Colhoun did not see the car shot at.  He heard the shots and the broken glass.  He could see the car from the gable wall.  He was not aware of shooting towards gaps 2 and 3.

9.2.3   IRA

Mr Colhoun said that it was his understanding that the Provisional IRA would not be on the march.  He said that he thought they would be deep in the Bogside area.  He knew that the Provisional IRA were better equipped than the Official IRA because of general talk he had heard at the time.

Mr Colhoun never had any involvement with anyone from the republican movement.  He did not know the identity of members of the Official IRA.

10               ALAN HARKIN’S EVIDENCE

10.1            QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

10.1.1  Harvey Street

Mr Harkin watched from the outside of his house in Harvey Street.  He saw people gathering at the top end of Rossville Street and thought that this was where the speeches would take place.

He heard shots which appeared to be coming from William Street or Little James Street.  He saw the crowd running in a southerly direction.  Mr Harkin ran towards the car park and to the garage door by Block 1.

10.1.2  Rossville Flats

Mr Harkin saw five or six soldiers behind the Chamberlain Street houses who were advancing in a southerly direction.  He could not remember seeing any Army vehicles.

Mr Harkin saw the body of Jack Duddy and assumed that he had been hit by a rubber bullet. 

He tried to get out of the car park and had trouble opening the door which leads into the stairwell of Block 1.  Barman Duffy pulled him inside and put a board through the two handles on the inside of the door.  There were about 15 people huddled down.  A woman said that bodies were lying in another stairwell of the same block. 

Mr Harkin went to the first floor balcony.  He reached the southern end of Block 1 and walked downstairs and saw two bodies.  One body was half on the landing.  Mr Harkin said that it was a boy in his teens who had long black hair and Oxford style shoes which had been taken off his feet and placed next to him. 

Mr Harkin went to the ground floor and saw a second body propped up against the inside wall of the stairwell.  He said that it was a young man with a pair of boots by his feet.

10.1.3 South side of Rossville Flats

Mr Harkin went outside and saw the body of Bernard McGuigan.  He said that there were a couple of people standing around him, one was Jack Murray.  Mr Murray picked up an eyelid from the large pool of blood that was on the ground.

Mr Harkin heard the rapid succession of at least six shots which came from the north.  Everyone seemed to scatter.  Jack Murray held his hands out to stop people running over Barney McGuigan’s body.  Actuality footage was shown which shows Mr Murray with his arms out and people running around him.

10.2         QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES AND THE WOUNDED

10.2.1  Rossville Flats

Mr Harkin agreed that he was in a state of shock after seeing the dead bodies.  He saw four bodies that day and it was the first time he had known the Army to shoot people.  Mr Finnegan suggested that the body which Mr Harkin said that he saw in the foyer of the Rossville Flats could have actually been outside, close to Mr McGuigan’s body.  He was shown the photographs of Hugh Gilmour lying close to Bernard McGuigan.  Mr Harkin said that he has a clear memory of seeing the bodies inside the flats.

10.3         QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

10.3.1  Rossville Flats car park

Mr Harkin said that he heard sporadic shots from the William Street direction.  He did not see any soldiers on the waste ground.  When he reached the car park of the Rossville Flats he heard loud bursts of shots.

Mr Harkin said that there were soldiers at the back of Chamberlain Street who were walking along in single file.  He did not agree that the soldiers were taking cover.

11               DANIEL McGUINNESS’S EVIDENCE

11.1         QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

11.1.1            Numbers on the march

Mr McGuinness estimated that there were 15,000 people on the march.  He calculated this by taking into account the length of the street and the numbers of people across the width of the street.

11.1.2            Magilligan march

Mr McGuinness said that he had been persuaded to go to the Magilligan march by his brother in law, Dr McClean.  He said that what he saw of the paras that day caused him to change his opinion about what was happening in Northern Ireland.  Mr McGuinness was an engineer and was at home on short leave from working abroad. 

Mr McGuinness said that he had seen an incident where a para had been beaten by another soldier with a baton after having discharged a rubber bullet inches away from a 15 or 16 year old boy.  Mr McGuinness said a soldier can be seen on his hands and knees in video footage from the march.  He said that the impression given by the editing is that the soldier was a victim of the rioters.  He thinks that this may be the same soldier that he had witnessed shooting the boy with a rubber bullet gun and suggested that the Tribunal watch the footage before this scene in slow motion to see whether the rubber bullet incident is recorded.  Mr Clarke said that they would do this.

11.1.3  Rocking Chair pub

Mr McGuinness was asked about Dr McClean’s evidence.  He vaguely remembers going to the Rocking Chair Bar and does not remember meeting anyone specifically there.  He remembers that there was no fear that the IRA would be present at the march or that there would be armed confrontation.

11.1.4  William Street

Mr McGuinness saw a disturbance at barrier 14.  He said that it was clear that there was confrontation and it was obvious that the destination of the march had been blockaded.

Mr McGuinness said that he could not see Barrier 12 but he could see 6 or 9 soldiers standing in Little James Street near the junction with Prince Arthur Street.  He said that the soldiers were standing in full view, out in the open.  He said that he had a clear recollection that the soldiers had to be in front of the barrier.

Mr McGuinness heard two shots which he thinks came from the northwest, possibly the GPO roof.  He said that within one minute, a man ran up to Dr McClean and said that two people had been shot.

11.1.5  Free Derry Corner

Mr McGuinness said that as the speakers were about to begin he heard a furious burst of shots from the north of Rossville Street.  He said that everybody, apart from him, fell to the ground.  Mr McGuinness said that he stayed standing because he refused to believe that the Army would fire at civilians.

Mr McGuinness said that he heard one bullet pass to his left about 15 feet away from him and 11 feet off the ground.  The second bullet passed about 5 feet directly above his head from the direction of the city walls.  Mr McGuinness said that the two bullets had a trajectory at right angles to each other.

Mr McGuinness looked up to the city walls.  He saw two people at the embrasure in the battlements, between Walkers Pillar and the Apprentice Boys Hall.  One man was in military uniform and the other was standing behind him and was in police uniform.  Mr McGuinness attributed the shot which had gone in the direction of Lisfannon Park to one of these two people.

Mr McGuinness said that after the two shots there was a brief lull and people began to run away.  He went south towards the Lecky Road.  He heard a second burst of gunfire.

11.2            QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SODLIERS

11.2.1            Magilligan

Mr Glasgow said that he did not have instructions about the incident which Mr McGuinness described at Magilligan when he said a soldier fired a rubber bullet towards a young man’s stomach.

Mr McGuinness said that before he had returned to Northern Ireland he had believed the situation was in the process of being resolved.  The Army had taken charge after confrontation with the police.  Dr McClean said that it was not as simple as he had been led to believe and suggested he attend the Magilligan march.  He agreed that there was an assumption that if the march was prevented from arriving at the prison there would be some kind of confrontation.

Mr McGuinness said that he saw an attempt by people to pass the place where the restriction was put.  This was resisted by a sudden and violent reaction of the troops.  He did not see anyone strike a soldier.  He saw a para beating a young man with a baton and another young man throw himself at the para.  He said that this is the incident when the para discharged a rubber bullet into the young man’s stomach.  He said that the rubber bullet was intended to hit but because the man was on the para’s shoulder, he could not bring the point of the pistol into his stomach.  Mr McGuinness said that the bullet was discharged at close proximity.  He was unable to bring the barrel right in front of the young man because the man had moved.

Mr McGuinness said that he did not see an incident where a para was hit with a civil rights banner.  (Video footage was shown of this and it shows the para advancing on the crowd and the person hitting the para away from them with his banner.)

11.2.2  Barrier 12

Mr McGuinness said that he recalls the soldiers standing in front of Barrier 12. 

11.2.3 Free Derry Corner

Mr McGuinness said that he heard a furious outburst of shots.  He said that the sound did not have the precision spacing that would be expected from a machine gun.  He agreed that there could have been some machine gun fire with the sound of a lot of rifle fire.

Mr McGuinness said that the shot which went over his head could have been a warning shot or could have been an attempt to kill him.  He did not drop to the ground after this shot.  There was a lull in the shooting and then Mr McGuinness made a run for it with everyone else.

Mr McGuinness said that there may have been other soldiers on the walls.  He was too alarmed and only noticed the soldier and a policeman.  Mr Elias suggested that the two shots Mr McGuinness witnessed were from Long Tower Street rather than the walls.  Mr McGuinness said that he could not distinguish precisely where the shots came from.

12               PATRICK DEENEY’S EVIDENCE

12.1            QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

12.1.1  Rossville Flats car park

Mr Deeney does not recall giving a statement in 1972 although he said that it definitely is his statement.  In the 1972 statement he said that he saw Michael Bridge go towards a young boy who had been shot and that a para had taken aim and shot him.  It says that Father Daly had then gone to the two men who had been shot.  Mr Deeney no longer recalls these incidents.  He did not know Michael Bridge at the time and agreed that somebody must have suggested his name.  Mr Deeney said that by referring to a  ‘coloured paratrooper’ he would have meant  a black man.

Mr Deeney remembers a red-haired woman helping Michael Bridge. He remembers that he had his hand pressed to the top of his thigh and saw the hole in his leg and that he was bleeding.  He said that he is 90% sure that Mr Bridge was holding his right leg.

Mr Deeney now has no recollection of a man running along the high wall parallel to Block 3.  His statement records that three or four shots hit the wall about 10 feet above the man’s head.  He can recall that the man was on his own.  Mr Deeney said that the man went out of view as he got towards the gap between Blocks 2 and 3.  Some people said that the man had got away and others said that he had been hit.

Mr Deeney said that he is unclear about the sequence of the events he witnessed in the car park.

12.1.2 South of the Rossville Flats

Mr Deeney crossed from northeast of the car park to Blocks 2 and 3.  He can be seen in photographs around the body of Patrick Doherty.  He said that he does not remember the scene.

12.2            QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES AND WOUNDED

12.2.1            Retaining wall

Mr Deeney said that the shots fired towards the gap between Blocks 2 and 3 were hitting the wall above the man’s head.  He followed the route taken by the man to see if he was alright.  Each shot got closer to the man’s head and lower down the wall.

12.3            QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

12.3.1            Rossville Flats car park

Mr Deeney said that he does not remember cars being parked in the car park. 

He did not see a civilian gunman in the corner by the exit between Blocks 2 and 3.

12.3.2 1972 statement

Mr Deeney said that he went to the shops in the Creggan to make a statement.  He just told the statement taker what he had seen.  Two of his friends, Jim McMenamin and Barry O’Loughlin made a joint statement in 1972.  Mr Deeney agreed that they all talked about what they had seen.  He suggested that the reason his statement is similar to his friends is because they were in the same corner of the car park at the time of the shooting.

13               EAMONN BAKER’S EVIDENCE

13.1            QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

13.1.1            Barrier 14

Mr Baker threw stones from behind the tin sheeting at barrier 14.  He decided to move out of the area when he became aware from the reaction of others that it was time to go.

13.1.2            Chamberlain Street

Mr Baker ran down Chamberlain Street.  He saw a soldier appear at the junction with Eden Place.  The soldier stepped out and fired a rubber bullet at a man who was about to throw a stone at the soldier.

Mr Baker carried on running south until he reached the end of Chamberlain Street.  He said that he was conscious of shooting from behind the Chamberlain street houses but assumed that it was rubber bullets.

13.1.3            Rossville Flats car park

Mr Baker said that something drew his attention to the circle of people around Jack Duddy.  He said that it would have taken him less than one minute to get from the top of Chamberlain Street to this position.