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5 - 8 FEBRUARY 2001
This week, the Tribunal heard evidence from Bishop Daly, the retired Bishop of Derry. Alana Burke, who was wounded on Bloody Sunday and Joseph McKinney, the brother of William McKinney also gave evidence.
A full transcript of proceedings is available at http://www.bloody-sunday-inquiry.org.uk
1.
WILLIAM McCLOSKEY’S EVIDENCE continued
1.1
QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS
1.1.1
Waste ground
Mr McCloskey kicked the soldier because he did not want to get arrested. After he kicked the soldier, he ran to Chamberlain Street.
Maurice McColgan’s evidence was put to Mr McCloskey. Mr McColgan said that a man punched a para. That another para had jumped out of the APC and fired a rifle. That the man had grabbed Mr McColgan and turned him around. Mr McCloskey said that it was not a description of him. He thinks that he met Mr McColgan for the first time at Fort George. Maurice McColgan said that he helped carry Michael Bridge into the Nellis’s house.
1.1.2
Michael Bridge
Mr McCloskey said that Michael Bridge had already been shot when he first noticed him. He could not see anyone else on the ground. He did not see Jack Duddy or Father Daly.
1.1.4 Arrests
Mr McCloskey did not know the Nellis family. He said he saw Mr Schlindwein, Mr McColgan and the Campbells when he was inside the house.
The arrestees were taken to William Street. Mr McCloskey sat on the ground for about 30 minutes and was then ordered into a lorry. He described an incident in the lorry when a Welshman complained to a soldier about the way they were being treated. The soldier fired a rubber bullet into the man’s face. He agreed that everyone else in the lorry would have been aware of this incident as well.
Duncan Clarke is now deceased but his 1972 statement records how he was shot in the face with a rubber bullet. Mr Clarke was a Welsh ex-service man. He described being held inside an APC with an elderly man for half an hour. Mr Clarke said that he was shot whilst he was inside the APC and it was only after this that he was moved to a lorry. A photograph of Mr Clarke at Fort George shows that his nose had been bleeding.
Mr McCloskey believes that this incident took place inside the lorry. He disagreed with the suggestion that his imagination was playing tricks with him.
1.1.5
Fort George
Mr McCloskey said that when he arrived at Fort George he was marched down a tunnel into a cage. He agreed that there was no harm done to him as he went into the cage.
Mr McCloskey thinks that he met Maurice McColgan inside the cage. Two brothers called McColgan were arrested and held at Fort George. Mr McCloskey said that Maurice McColgan wanted to go to the toilet. He said that Mr McColgan told him a soldier had said ‘if I catch you talking to that bastard (meaning Mr McCloskey) I’ll blow your head off.’
Mr McCloskey said that he had been rioting that day and he agreed that he had not been prosecuted.
2 PATRICK CLARKE’S EVIDENCE
2.1
QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL
2.1.1
Barrier 14
Mr Clarke was in the main body of the march. He was about 50 yards behind the lorry when it turned into Rossville Street. He said that the news that the march was going to Free Derry Corner was passed through the crowd.
Mr Clarke went down to barrier 14 to look at what was happening. He had been involved in rioting in 1969 but he did not throw any stones on Bloody Sunday. He saw boys using a tin sheet as a shield. Mr Clarke saw the Army use the water cannon on the rioters.
Mr Clarke saw the soldiers enter barrier 14 on foot. He did not see any vehicles drive through barrier 14. He saw vehicles driving south down Little James Street.
2.1.2
Harvey Street and Chamberlain Street
Mr Clarke first heard live fire when he was on Chamberlain Street. He said there were about 100 to 150 people running down Chamberlain Street.
Mr Clarke stopped at the junction of Harvey Street and Chamberlain Street. He saw an old man came out of a shop door onto Eden Place. A soldier grabbed the old man and knocked him on the head with a baton. The soldier pulled the old man pulled around the corner.
Another soldier popped his head around the corner. He looked into Chamberlain Street in Mr Clarke’s direction. The soldier dodged back again. Mr Clarke could see a rifle. He described how in one fluid movement, the soldier started to fire. The soldier could not see what he was firing at. Mr Clarke’s 1972 statement said that the soldier fired one shot. He does not think that he is mistaken in thinking that it was actually six or seven shots. He saw bullet holes in the brickwork around the window frame of a house.
In the days after Bloody Sunday, Mr Clarke’s wife noticed a hole above the left hand pocket of his sheepskin jacket. At the time the soldier fired the shots into Chamberlain Street, Mr Clarke had been standing sideways and his jacket was open. He had not noticed the hole until his wife had brought it to his attention.
2.1.3
Joseph Place
Mr Clarke ran through the gaps in the Rossville Flats. He saw Pius McCarron lying by a passageway in the Rossville Flats. Mr McCarron had been hit on the head by falling masonry. Someone helped Mr Clarke to carry Mr McCarron to the alleyway behind Joseph Place.
He took Mr McCarron into a house in Joseph Place and stayed with him for some time. Mr Clarke recalls that another injured man was taken upstairs in the same house. From the house, Mr Clarke could see people lying near the telephone box at the south of block 1 of the Rossville flats.
2.1.4
Rubble barricade
Mr Clarke crawled out of the house. There was a burst of shooting. He could see a body on the rubble barricade and a soldier lying across the bonnet of the APC, using the bonnet to support his rifle.
He could hear an English accent shouting through a loudhailer ‘stay where you are. Do not move or you will be shot.’ He could not see who was saying that.
Mr Clarke saw two soldiers pick up two bodies and throw them head first into the APC as if they were ‘carcasses.’ He thinks that the APC was facing towards Free Derry Corner. He recalls hearing the noise of the APC reversing and said that it is possible that the bodies were put into the APC before it reversed back up Rossville Street.
2.1.5 Barney McGuigan
Mr Clarke creeped up to the area south of block 1 of the Rossville Flats. He placed his sheepskin coat over the body of Barney McGuigan. A woman leaned out of a window of block 2 of the flats and Mr Clarke asked her for a blanket. In the meantime someone had placed a scarf over Mr McGuigan’s head. He did not see who had placed the scarf on Mr McGuigan.
Mr Clarke made his way to the crowd of people at the gable end of Glenfada Park North. He said the arrests had already taken place.
2.2.
QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES
2.2.1
Alana Burke
Mr Clarke’s statement to the BSI says that after he had seen Father Daly tending to Jack Duddy he noticed an APC hit a woman he now knows to be Alana Burke. His 1972 statement says that he saw Alana Burke when he was inside the house in Joseph Place. He agreed with Mr Harvey that he could be confusing what he saw with what he was told about in the house in Joseph Place because the evidence suggests that Ms Burke was hit before Jack Duddy was shot.
2.3
QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS
2.3.1
1972 statement
Mr Clarke said that he thinks his 1972 statement is incorrect in saying that the soldier in Eden Place fired a single shot. He thinks he may have told the statement taker in 1972 that there were 6 or 7 shots.
2.3.2
Chamberlain Street
Mr Clarke moved up Chamberlain Street towards the Rossville Flats. He glanced over his shoulder and looked up and heard shots being fired. Mr Clarke took it that the shots were coming from the direction of William Street.
2.3.3
Rossville Flats
Mr Clarke saw someone lying flat on his stomach who was attending someone lying on their back. He thinks it was Pius McCarron and does not know who was attending him. Mr Clarke thinks Mr McCarron was hit by a lump of masonry which he thought might have come from the flats.
2.3.4
Sheepskin jacket
Mr Clarke’s sheepskin jacket was soaked in blood. His wife found a hole above the pocket. Mr Clarke’s jacket had been open and he had been crouched over, leaning forward when the shots were fired in Chamberlain Street. He was not aware of the bullet passing through his coat when he was in Chamberlain Street.
Lord Saville asked whether it was possible that the hole was created when he was behind the low wall by blocks 2 and 3 of the Rossville Flats or when he was making his way through the gap. Mr Clarke did not think this could have been possible because there had not been any shooting as he ran through the gap and he was undercover behind the wall when the shooting took place.
2.3.5
Altnagelvin Hospital
Mr Clarke drove William McKinney’s father to Altnagelvin Hospital that evening. When the car stopped at traffic lights, the back door of the Army jeep in front of them opened. Mr Clarke said that the paras told him to turn the lights off or they would shoot him. He is sure the soldiers were paras because they were wearing helmets. The paras kept their guns trained on Mr Clarke’s car.
3 MAURICE McCOLGAN’S STATEMENT
3.1
QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL
3.1.1
Chamberlain Street
Mr McColgan got to the junction with William Street and Prince Arthur Street. He saw the water cannon being used. He went around the Rossville Flats because the crowd trying to get through the gap was too big.
3.1.2
Rossville Flats
Mr McColgan stood in the courtyard of the flats. He saw two APCS, one faced south. There were no people in the waste ground to the west of Chamberlain Street.
Mr McColgan saw William McCloskey walking towards him. A soldier jumped out from the back of an APC and ran towards Mr McCloskey. Mr McCloskey turned around and punched the soldier in the jaw. The soldier fell to the ground and Mr McColgan said that it is possible that Mr McCloskey kicked the soldier.
Another soldier jumped out of the APC and dropped to one knee. He raised his gun to his shoulder. Mr McColgan thought it was a rubber bullet gun but he heard a crack and noticed the soldier was aiming an SLR at William McCloskey. The soldier missed because he was attending to the other soldier at the same time. William McCloskey grabbed Mr McColgan by the shoulders as he ran towards the Rossville Flats.
They then saw Michael Bridge lying on the ground. Mr McColgan and Mr McCloskey picked up Michael Bridge and took him to 33 Chamberlain Street. Mr McColgan said that he thought this house was a first aid post because he noticed two of his friends who were Knights Of Malta in the house. Mr McColgan said that he was not aware of anything else happening in the car park.
3.1.3 Arrest
and Fort George
Mr McColgan was arrested and marched up Chamberlain Street. He was made to stand facing the wall. The arrestees were then loaded into a Bedford four-tonner and told to lie face down on the floor of the truck. One person looked up and was hit by either a baton or the butt of a rifle.
In Fort George, Mr McColgan said he had to run the gauntlet. There were about 50 paras, 25 on each side. The soldiers would beat the men on their heads and bodies as they ran past. Mr McColgan saw Eamonn McAteer stumble after he was hit. Both Mr McColgan’s forearms were badly bruised as a result of the blows from the truncheons.
Mr McColgan described the compound that the arrestees were held in inside Fort George. They were lined up against barbed wire and told to place their hands above their heads and against the wire. Their legs were kicked apart and they were searched.
An RUC officer asked them all their names and addresses. There were a lot of soldiers milling about in the compound. They were being asked to identify civilians whether the identification was correct or not. One soldier had approached Mr McColgan. He had never seen the soldier before. The soldier tried to grip Mr McColgan’s hands to the barbed wire but Mr McColgan pushed him back. The soldier charged Mr McColgan with riotous behaviour.
He was led into the other half of the compound. Soldiers with Alsatian dogs were ordering the dogs to attack. They would let the dogs run loose on their chains as if to attack the arrestees and then tug them back.
Mr McColgan said that the arrestees were given cups of teas. There was not enough to go around. One soldier was feeding his dog with the tea. He then handed the cup to Mr McColgan who squashed the plastic cup and threw it on the ground. The soldier then told Mr McColgan to go to the toilet. Inside the toilet Mr McColgan turned to see the soldier coming at him with his baton raised. He received a blow to the back of his head and the soldier said ‘if you do that to my dog again I’ll blow your fucking head off.’ An RUC officer appeared and dragged the soldier off Mr McColgan. Another soldier came to escort Mr McColgan back to the compound. He was led to another room.
An RUC officer took a statement from Mr McColgan. He did not see it after that. He was released from Fort George late at night. When he was leaving, Mr McColgan had heard a commotion and asked the RUC officer what was happening. The officer told him that the regular soldiers had had a row with the paras.
3.1.4
RUC investigation into arrests
Mr Clarke asked Mr McColgan about the RUC investigation into Mr Nellis’s complaint about the arrests. A report by an RUC officer to his Chief Superintendent said that the RUC had approached two of the arrestees who lived in an area they could get to. Mr Nellis was one and the report said that he had not been forthcoming. The report said that Mr McColgan had said he did not want to be involved. Mr McColgan said he did not recall indicating that he did not want to be involved.
3.2
QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES
3.2.1
Michael Bridge
When the APCs arrived in Rossville Street, Mr McColgan did not see or hear anything that would constitute a threat to the soldiers. He went to help Michael Bridge get off the street as soon as possible. He took Mr Bridge to Chamberlain Street because he knew it was a first aid post.
3.2.2
Arrests
The soldiers entered 33 Chamberlain Street and rounded up the able-bodied people in the house. Mr McColgan said that no one was specifically identified.
Mr McColgan said that the soldier shown in his arrest photograph identified himself. Lord Gifford asked if he could put the name to Mr McColgan in writing. It was not clear whether the piece of paper would constitute a public document which would circumvent the anonymity ruling. Lord Saville said it was not necessary to ask Mr McColgan because he had identified the soldier in the photograph.
3.3
QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS
3.3.1
Michael Bridge
Michael Bridge could have been with the people sheltering at the gable end of Chamberlain Street but Mr McColgan said that he was concentrating on the soldiers. He and Mr McCloskey went straight to Michael Bridge. He did not see Father Daly’s gunman or hear gunshots from that direction.
3.3.2
Fort George
Mr McColgan had been made to lie face down in the truck that took him to Fort George. He thinks that all of the people arrested in Chamberlain Street were taken to Fort George in the same lorry. He heard the sound of someone being struck possibly by a rifle or a baton. He did not hear any shots or baton rounds inside the lorry. The soldiers were battering the side of the lorry with their truncheons so if a baton round had been fired he may not have been able to hear it.
Mr McColgan cannot identify the soldier who beat him up in the toilets. He did not receive any medical attention at Fort George and did not ask for any.
Mr McColgan’s brother, Joseph, was also arrested and held at Fort George. He first saw him when he was inside the compound at Fort George.
Mr McColgan said that it is possible that soldiers threatened William McCloskey but he has no recollection of it.
4
BISHOP DALY’S EVIDENCE
Bishop Daly is the retired Bishop of Derry. At the time of Bloody Sunday, he was a curate at St Eugene’s cathedral. For the purpose of this report, Bishop Daly will be referred to as Father Daly in relation to his evidence on the details of events on Bloody Sunday. For more general evidence he will be referred to as Bishop Daly.
4.1
QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL
4.1.1
Stance of the Church in Derry
Father Daly said that the Church in Derry did not take any line on the march. Father O’Neill had made an announcement at 12 o’clock mass at St Eugene’s. Father Daly clearly remembers him saying that there were paras outside and asked the people to make their way home quietly.
4.1.2
William Street
Father Daly said that he passed the junction of William Street and Rossville Street. He stopped at Porter Street and watched the scene at the barrier. He said that it started with cat calling and then deteriorated into a riot. He was aware of the Army firing CS gas. People started drifting. Some went down to Free Derry Corner and some went back up William Street. Other people just stood around talking.
4.1.3 First
two shots
Father Daly was in Rossville Street when he heard Kevin McCorry asking people to go to the meeting through a loudhailer. He heard two or three shots ring out and took cover at the wall by Kells Walk. Father Daly thinks that by this stage, the main body of the march had passed through William Street. There was still some rioting taking place in William Street.
Father Daly said that the shots appeared to come from the left hand side of William Street. They were high velocity shots. He said that there was a moment of panic and things settled down again. Someone approached Father Daly and told him that two people had been shot. He made his way to the Grandstand Bar and was told that two priests had already reached the injured men. He returned to Rossville Street.
4.1.4
Rossville Street
Father Daly recalls hearing the revving of engines because the noise alarmed him and others. People began to move and the APCs picked up speed. Father Daly said that he expected the APCs to stop at Eden Place.
He explained that there was a certain choreography to rioting. When the APCs passed Eden Place they broke that choreography which caused people to panic. Father Daly said that people ran from all directions. He ran with the crowd and thinks that he may have been towards the back of the crowd.
4.1.5
Rossville Flats car park
Father Daly said that it is difficult to remember the precise sequence of events. He recalls moving from Rossville Street into the courtyard in front of the Rossville Flats. He said that he had a distinct memory of seeing a body thrown in the air by an APC at the north end of the Rossville Flats. Father Daly is not sure whether this happened before or after Jack Duddy was shot.
As Father Daly entered the courtyard, Jack Duddy caught his attention because he was smiling or laughing. Father Daly said he is not sure whether Mr Duddy was laughing from fear or exhilaration. Father Daly said he was running because he was scared of the snatch squads. He could see that the gap between blocks 1 and 2 of the flats was jammed with people so he veered away from what was his intended course.
Father Daly heard a shot and when he looked around he saw Jack Duddy had fallen on his face in the middle of the courtyard. He cannot be precise about the exact location. Father Daly looked back to see where the APCs where. He saw soldiers in the waste ground and at least one APC. At the point that Jack Duddy was shot, Father Daly could not say what the soldier was doing. He is clear that the shot that hit Jack Duddy came from behind. He was not conscious of rubber bullets being fired. He remembers the sound of feet and general panic.
When Mr Duddy fell, Father Daly continued to run. A burst of gunfire rang out which caused panic. The air was filled with yells and screams of fear. He distinctly remembers one woman screaming. He said that his priority changed from trying to get away to trying to get cover. Father Daly cannot recall whether he reached the low wall in front of block 2 before or after the burst of gunfire. The burst of gunfire came from the area of the waste ground.
There was a lull in the firing. Father Daly looked over the wall and saw Jack Duddy. William Barber had turned Mr Duddy over. Father Daly made his way out and Liam Bradley and Charles Glenn, the Knight of Malta, appeared at his side. Father Daly administered the Last Rites and the gunfire started again. He cannot remember the order or intensity of the gunfire. He recalls sporadic gunfire. Father Daly said that his clear recollection is that the firing all came from the direction of the soldiers.
Mr Clarke said that one of the major questions facing the Tribunal is whether the Army opened up for no reason or whether they were faced with fire from a number of different sources. Father Daly said that he is certainly not conscious of any gunfire directed to the Army and no threat to the Army at the time they opened fire. He said there was no justification for the Army to open fire.
Father Daly got as far to the ground as he could. A young man with long fair hair dashed past. Father Daly said the man was very distressed and was waving his arms in the air. Father Daly shouted at him to clear off. He has a clear recollection of a soldier stepping out from the gable end of block 1. The soldier went down onto one knee, took aim and fired. The young man, Michael Bridge started running around. Father Daly did not see him afterwards.
The group that had gathered around Jack Duddy decided to carry him towards Chamberlain Street. During this time there was sporadic gunfire and Father Daly thinks some bursts of automatic gunfire but he cannot specify exactly where that was.
Father Daly said that he saw a man leaning on the wall of the last house in Chamberlain Street. The man produced a handgun and fired two or three shots around the corner at the soldiers. Father Daly screamed for him to go away. He was frightened that the soldiers would think fire was coming from them. Father Daly said he thinks he shouted at the man after he had fired the shots rather than before. He does not think that the soldiers were aware of this man’s presence because if they had he thinks they would have riddled him with bullets. Mr Clarke said that there is no evidence from the soldiers that they were conscious of a gunman in that position or that anyone had fired from that position. In his statement to the Widgery Inquiry, Father Daly said he thought the soldiers had fired back at the man. He said that he is not sure about this as he thinks that if they had been aware of the man they would have shot him.
The film footage of the group carrying Jack Duddy away from the car park was shown. Father Daly said that the group decided to carry Mr Duddy up Chamberlain Street and into Harvey Street to try and get him to hospital. Gunfire was coming in as they moved away and Father Daly can be seen ducking. As the group turned into Harvey Street a soldier can be seen going towards the group. Liam Bradley can be seen remonstrating with the soldier for pointing his rifle at Jack Duddy. Jack Duddy was put into an ambulance.
4.1.6
Base block 2 of the Rossville Flats
Father Daly saw several dead bodies at the base of block 2 of the Rossville Flats. He administered the Last Rites. Father O’Gara and Father Mullarkey were also there. He said there were a number of injured and a lot of distressed people.
4.1.7
Expectations
Father Daly said that he had not expected anything serious to happen at the march. He had made plans for that evening and did not anticipate being late for the rehearsal of a play he was producing. He said that rioting and stone throwing were regular occurrences in Derry at that time.
4.1.8
IRA
Father Daly had not heard what the plans for the IRA would be. He had no personal knowledge of paramilitary organisations. As a priest he had operated an ‘open to all’ policy that he should administer to everyone.
4.2
QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES
4.2.1
Jack Duddy
Jack Duddy was turning back as he ran towards the Rossville Flats. Father Daly could not be precise about how far Jack Duddy had been turning. He said that he is absolutely certain that Mr Duddy had nothing in his hands.
Father Daly said that the level of background noise and the fact that he could not conceive that the soldiers would be firing live bullets meant that he initially thought that Mr Duddy had been hit by a rubber bullet. It was when he saw blood on Mr Duddy’s shirt that he realised that he had been hit by a live round.
4.2.2
Michael Bridge
Michael Bridge was in a distressed state. Father Daly recalls him waving his arms in the air with his hands open. Mr Bridge had nothing in his hands.
Father Daly saw soldiers in the waste ground, around an APC. He cannot remember whether other shots were fired at the same time that Mr Bridge was shot. He has a very clear memory of the soldier who got down on his knees, aimed and shot Mr Bridge.
4.2.3
Missing casualties
Mr Topolski asked Bishop Daly about the soldiers’ suggestion at the BSI that there are 34 unknown civilian casualties. Mr Topolski said that the inference is that secret and private burials may have taken place of people killed by the Army that day. Bishop Daly described this suggestion as ‘offensive nonsense.’ He said that funerals and graves were culturally important and pointed to the distress over disappearances in Belfast as an example of this.
4.2.4
Civil Rights Marches
Bishop Daly was a curate in Derry from 1962. He was aware of the emergence of the civil rights movement. There had been a number of different civil rights groups such as NICRA, the Derry Citizens Defence Association, Peoples’ Democracy and the Derry Citizens Action Committee. Father Daly said that the marches these groups had organised had never been used by paramilitaries as cover to shoot at the Army or Police.
4.2.5
Bloody Sunday
Bishop Daly said that in his view, when the APCs entered Rossville Street there was no threat posed to the Army. He did not hear or see any nail bombs or acid bombs. He saw bottles being thrown but does not recall seeing any petrol bombs.
Bishop Daly said that at the point when he spoke to Barman Duffy and Stephen McMonagle the stone throwing had fizzled out on William Street and Little James Street.
The shooting that he described as sounding like automatic fire would be better described as a cluster of shots. He was not conscious of any firing coming from the Rossville Flats. It was all coming from the other direction.
4.3
QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS
Mr Glasgow said that none of his questions were intended to undermine Bishop Daly’s honesty or his abhorrence of violence.
4.3.1
Riots and Marches
Bishop Daly said that a clear distinction should be drawn between riots and marches. He had attended most marches as a participant. On no occasion does he remember marches being used by snipers for cover. He said he was aware that snipers had taken advantage of a riot.
Father Daly was asked about an interview he gave to Praxis. In the interview he said that demonstrations often ended in riots and sometimes gunfire. He drew a distinction between marches which were formal events organised by stewards and demonstrations which would be a reaction to something that had happened and were spur of the moment affairs.
Bishop Daly was asked whether he was concerned that a peaceful march could be taken advantage of by rioters. He said that internment was a grave injustice and marches were an important democratic right. He said that marches could not always be cancelled because of a fear that someone might take advantage of it.
4.3.2 Bloody Sunday
For Peace Justice & Human Rights
