BLOODY SUNDAY INQUIRY Week 16

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11 - 14 DECEMBER 2000

This was the last week of the BSI hearing before the Christmas break. Civilian witnesses continued to give their oral evidence.

The topics covered included William Street, the shooting of Damien Donaghy and John Johnson and events in Glenfada Park and Abbey Park.

The Tribunal rejected an application from Martin McGuiness for legal representation at the BSI. They said that they would not give him full party status unless and until he provides a witness statement to the BSI.

A full transcript of proceedings is available at http://www.bloody-sunday-inquiry.org.uk.

1.1 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

1.1.1 William Street and the waste ground

Mr Fox recalls crouching by a wall looking towards Little James Street. He said that rubber bullets were hitting the wall above his head. Several live rounds were fired and he heard them hitting the wall above his head.

He saw Damien Donaghy fall and being picked up and carried up William Street. He then recalls John Johnston walking around the corner of Nooks bar and then seeing him being helped.

1.1.2 Blucher Street and Dove Gardens

Mr Fox recalls seeing Michael Quinn in Blucher Street with blood pouring out of his nose.

Mr Fox went to the first floor flat in Dove Gardens. He heard shooting but did not look out the window.

1.2 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF NICRA

1.2.1 Route

Mr Fox said that the news that the march had been diverted to Free Derry Corner had passed through the crowd. He had not heard any announcement.

1.3 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

1.3.1 William Street and the waste ground

Mr Fox said that he is clear that there was a wall behind him when he had seen John Johnston.

1.3.2 1972 statements

Mr Fox cannot recall why he gave a joint statement with Mr O'Mianain in 1972. He said that the reason he had not mentioned the bullets hitting the wall in this statement is probably because he had panicked.

Mr O'Mianain gave his evidence to the BSI in Irish.

2.1 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

2.1.1 William Street and the waste ground

Mr O'Mianain was standing by a wall in the waste ground to the south of William Street. He saw a rubber bullet bouncing across and tried to pick it up. He was told about a live bullet that hit the wall.

He saw a boy at the northwest corner of the waste ground. The boy was not with the boys who were throwing stones. When the boy said that he was hit, Mr O'Mianain moved towards him. He then saw a man turn into the waste ground and appear to trip. Mr O'Mianain went to hep the older man.

2.1.2 Fahan Street West and Dove Gardens

Mr O'Mianain went to Fahan Street West and could hear shots coming from the area of the junction of Rossville Street and William Street. He went to his mother's flat in Dove Gardens and lay on the floor in the sitting room.

He could see people diving to the ground in Lecky Road and could see a boy trying to escape the shooting by climbing up the steps to the Long Tower Church.

2.1.3 1972 statement

The next day Mr O'Mianain made a joint statement with Michael Fox. People were talking about making statements and he and Mr Fox had been together most of the time so they decided to put a statement in.

2.2 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

2.2.1 William Street and the waste ground

Mr O'Mianain did not hear the live round but he was told that it had hit the wall behind him as he bent down to pick up the rubber bullet. He did not hear any live rounds fired at this time.

2.2.2 1972 statements

Mr Mianain helped to take statements in St Patrick's School. He thinks that some witnesses wrote their own statements and others had statements taken from them. He recalls that the statements were taken with pen and paper.

3.1 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

3.1.1 William Street and barrier 14

Mrs McGuinness was near the front of the march and recalls being stopped at the barricade. She said that there was verbal confrontation between the soldiers and marchers. Mrs McGuinness said that she had seen footage of stone throwing at the barricade but cannot personally recall it. The next thing that she recalls was the water cannon spraying a powerful jet of water.

She went back up William Street to the area of the waste ground. She can recall the sounds of rubber bullets and live rounds.

3.1.2 Glenfada Park North

Mrs McGuinness was helped over the rubble barricade in Rossville Street and made her way into the Glenfada Park area. She recalls a person with shoulder length dark hair lying to the south of the barricade.

Mrs McGuinness crouched by a fence in the vicinity of Glenfada Park North. She recalls a young man with blood on his face running into the car park.

3.1.3 Westland Street

Mrs McGuinness made her way to Westland Street. She was shocked and stayed around that area. She did not see any cars racing down Westland Street or people taking weapons out of cars.

3.1.4 City walls

Mrs McGuinness thinks there was shooting coming from the city walls but is not sure if she heard it when she was in Rossville Street or the corner of Fahan Street West.

3.2 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES

3.2.1 Glenfada Park North/Abbey Park

Mrs McGuinness agreed that it is possible that she had sheltered behind a fence in Abbey Park rather than Glenfada Park, as she was unfamiliar with the area at that time.

She recalls a group of people administering first aid in the same area.

3.3 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF NICRA

3.3.1 Barrier 14

Mrs McGuinness said that she was registering a protest at the barrier because she wanted to continue on the march to the Guildhall. She said that the crowd was not posing any threat to the people on the other side of the barricade.

3.4 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

3.4.1 Barrier 14

Mrs McGuinness said that the crowd was orderly. She does not recall seeing the water cannon backing away after the first time that it was used.

Mr Glasgow asked Mrs McGuinness about the part of her BSI statement that referred to the 'brave' part of the crowd having gone to the barrier. She said that she had not used that word when she gave the statement.

3.4.2 Glenfada Park/Abbey Park

Mrs McGuinness agreed that the section of her BSI statement dealing with Glenfada Park did not sound vague. She said that she had difficulties working with the maps.

3.4.3 Westland Street

Mrs McGuinness said that she cannot recall how long she spent in Westland Street. She remembers that it was still light when she was there.

Mitchell McLaughlin was a friend of Mrs McGuinness. He was giving people lifts from Westland Street to the Creggan. She said that he stopped to see her on his way home to tell her how many people had been killed.

Gerry Duddy was 14 years old at the time of Bloody Sunday.

4.1 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

4.1.1 William Street

Mr Duddy saw soldiers on a flat roof next to the GPO. He saw some boys on the waste ground throwing stones at the soldiers. The soldiers were moving their guns around as if they were taking aim.

Mr Duddy saw Damien Donaghy fall at the corner of the waste ground near the Nooks Bar. He thought that Mr Donaghy had been hit by a rubber bullet. He heard a second rifle shot.

4.1.2 Week before Bloody Sunday

Mr Duddy said that people had been talking in the week before Bloody Sunday about the paras being sent in to Derry. He heard from people that the paras had said at the Magilligan march that they were coming to Derry and would make the streets 'run with blood.'

4.1.3 Creggan

The RUC would control the outlying areas of the Creggan. Mr Duddy did not see any gunmen patrolling the Creggan. People would bang dustbin lids to alert others to the fact that the police and army were arriving.

4.1.4 Barrier 14

Mr Duddy walked past the stewards to go to the barrier. He stayed around the area of Chamberlain Street for about 20 minutes.

4.1.5 Rossville Street and the Rossville flats

Mr Duddy met his brother Jackie and told him that their brother, Billy was looking for him. The last time that he saw Jackie was when he walked across Rossville Street to the Rossville flats.

Mr Duddy heard the sound of the APCs coming in and then the sound of shooting. Everybody started to run and Mr Duddy realised that the noise was live bullets.

He ran across the waste ground of Pilot Row, between blocks 2 and 3 of the Rossville flats and dived for cover behind a wall. He could not see how many soldiers were firing. Mr Duddy then crawled along the wall towards the exit between blocks 1 and 2.

4.1.6 Westland Street

Mr Duddy got to Westland Street and recalls feeling very frightened. People were standing around saying that 3 or 4 people had been killed. Mr Duddy had seen the bodies of Barney McGuigan and his brother, Jackie.

4.2 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

4.2.1 Creggan

Mr Duddy did not know anyone in the IRA. He had heard gunmen operating in the Creggan.

4.2.2 Damien Donaghy

Mr Duddy did not see Damien Donaghy throwing stones.

4.2.3 Rioting

Mr Duddy said that at the start he had wanted to join in with the rioting but he had not. He used the word 'fired' in his BSI statement as another word for thrown.

5.1 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

5.1.1 The start of the march

Mr O'Carolan was on the march with some friends. He said that the march appeared to disintegrate when he reached the area of William Street adjacent to the Presbyterian Church. He could not see the barriers but said there appeared to be confusion at Little James Street.

Mr O'Carolan said that there were young people throwing stones and he could hear people shouting. He met Charlie Meehan who advised him to get out of the area.

Mr O'Carolan did not see the soldiers in the Abbey Taxis building. However he suggested that Charlie Meehan may have noticed them as he had been in the area longer.

5.1.2 Damien Donaghy and John Johnston

Mr O'Carolan said that he noticed a young man who had become isolated from others. He heard a single shot and saw that the young man had been shot in the leg.

He then noticed a woman who was walking towards William Street, in the opposite direction from everyone else. Mr O'Carolan guided her to a wall and looked back to see John Johnston fall.

Mr O'Carolan went back to the area the next day and saw blood on the ground. He said that it was in the area of the laundry waste ground.

5.2 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES

5.2.1 Damien Donaghy and John Johnston

Mr O'Carolan wondered whether the soldiers had been ordered to shoot Damien Donaghy and John Johnston because he said they had not posed a threat. This was in his mind because he had listened to Mr Porter's tape recordings of the Army radio transmissions when an officer ordered a soldier to shoot a nail bomber.

5.3 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF NICRA

5.3.1 Stewarding of the march

Mr O'Carolan had attended a number of marches in Derry over the previous two years. He said that he thought there were sufficient stewards and remembers being marshalled at the start of the march. He saw one of the stewards, Don McCafferty, who had been soaked with dye from the water cannon.

5.4 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

5.4.1 Bullet holes

Mr O'Carolan had seen bullet holes in a doorway at the gable end of the house next to the laundry waste ground.

5.4.2 Shots, baton rounds and stone throwing

Mr O'Carolan did not hear any low velocity shots. He said that he would not be able to distinguish them.

He did not see any baton rounds.

He said that there was some stone throwing near the corner of Little James Street. He does not recall seeing any youths in the waste ground adjacent to the Abbey Taxi building.

5.4.3 Mr Porter's tape-recording

Mr O'Carolan cannot remember whether he listened to Mr Porter's tape-recording of the radio transmission before or after Bloody Sunday.

5.4.4 NICRA statement

Mr Elias asked Mr O'Carolan about the procedure that was followed when he gave his statement to NICRA. He said that Charlie Meehan had asked him to go and make a statement at a local school. He made his statement a day or two after Bloody Sunday.

Mr O'Carolan said that he had simply written out his account of the day. He said that he had not been prompted to write anything down. He was aware that there were other people in the school giving statements but he had not looked to see what they were doing. He gave his statement to one of the schoolteachers.

6.1 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

Dermot Carlin travelled to the march with his three brothers.

6.1.1 Stone throwers

Mr Carlin said that he saw stone throwers in the laundry waste ground. He did not realise that there were soldiers in the Abbey Taxis building and had thought that the stone throwing was random. He did not see any stone throwers in the waste ground to the north of William Street. He saw stones hitting the parapet in front of the GPO.

6.1.2 Damien Donaghy and John Johnston

Mr Carlin saw a group who appeared to be carrying a man away from the area of the waste ground. He also saw a youth on his knees behind another youth who was sitting with his legs splayed out in front of him. It appeared to Mr Carlin that the youths had been throwing stones. He said that other youths seemed to have left the boy who had been shot and that the youth kneeling behind him was calling for help.

Mr Carlin recalls hearing people on the north side of William Street complaining about people who had been throwing stones from the waste ground on the south side of William Street.

6.1.2 Shooting

Mr Carlin rejoined the march and caught up with his brothers. By the time he reached the Lisfannon Park area he could hear shooting. He thinks that he heard the noise of automatic fire because the shots were overlapping. He could not tell where the shooting was coming from or if it was coming from more than one direction.

6.1.3 Army checkpoints

When Mr Carlin travelled home, he was stopped by the Paras at a checkpoint near the cathedral. He saw the soldiers pushing a priest against the railings. He said that the soldiers were 'hyper.' The soldiers received a radio message and appeared to be celebrating.

His car was stopped again at a checkpoint near Rosemount Hill and was searched by regular soldiers.

Mr Carlin said that a couple of days after Bloody Sunday, he and his brother were stopped at a checkpoint on the Letterkenny Road. The soldier had a black eye and Mr Carlin's brother asked him whether he had got it in the fight the other night. (A reference to the reported fight between the Paras and regular soldiers after Bloody Sunday.) Mr Carlin said that the soldier nodded as if to say 'yes.'

6.2 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES

6.2.1 Treatment at checkpoints

Mr Carlin said that there was no comparison in the way that the Paras treated him at the checkpoint with that of the regular soldiers. The Paras had mocked some priests and nuns.

6.3 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF NICRA

6.3.1 Stewarding

Mr Carlin was in the last third to quarter of the march. He said that the stewards passed the message down that the march had been diverted. He said that the stewards had walked up and down the crowd telling people not to panic. Mr Carlin recalled that the march was moving in waves, it kept stopping and starting.

6.4 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

6.4.1 Stone throwing

Mr Carlin was aware that there were soldiers on the roof of the GPO sorting office. He did not know that they were also in the Abbey Taxis building. He agreed that the soldiers would have seen missiles thrown at them. Mr Carlin said that he had not seen any bottles thrown.

6.4.2 Shots

Mr Carlin saw two people who appeared to have been shot. Up until that time he had heard no shooting at all. He remembers a lot of noise and commotion. He heard two or three rubber bullets being fired. He saw rubber bullets bouncing along William Street.

He said that it is possible that he had not heard live rounds being fired because of the noise and commotion. Mr Carlin said that he heard the sound of automatic gunfire after the loud revving of the Army vehicles.

7.1 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

Liam Doherty worked his way from the tail end of the march to the front of it, looking for his friends. He had reached the front of the march by the time it got to William Street.

7.1.1 Rioting

Liam Doherty said that he was always behind the lorry. He did not see the lorry. He was three or four rows behind the people who had forced their way through the line of stewards to try and get up William Street.

Mr Doherty described the 'stand-off' at barrier 14. He said that people were throwing stones or anything they could get their hands on. He said that there were 50 or maybe 100 people rioting. He was throwing stones. Mr Doherty moved back after the water cannon came out and he started to feel the effects of the gas. He said that there was rioting taking place in Little James Street.

7.1.2 Waste ground

Mr Doherty described how he made his way back up William Street. He saw the soldiers in the Abbey Taxis building and shouted 'there they are.' Mr Doherty said that he went to get a stone. There were about six lads near to where he was standing. He said that a bullet hit the gable end of the Grandstand Bar. He then saw a young lad lying on William Street shouting 'I'm shot.'

Mr Doherty agreed that he could have been mistaken about the waste ground that he places this incident. (He puts it in the first waste ground on William Street rather than the laundry waste ground.)

Mr Doherty went over to Damien Donaghy and tried to get help from him. He agreed that he could have been the youth that Dermot Carlin described (see para 6.1.2).

Mr Doherty said that the stones he threw would have been 4 to 6 inches big. He does not know who the other stone throwers were.

7.2 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF NICRA

7.2.1 Stewarding

When people burst through the line of stewards, the stewards had been pleading with them to follow the lorry up Rossville Street.

Mr Doherty said that the people who were by the barricade would have been a mixture of stone throwers and those who were angry at not being allowed to go to the Guildhall.

7.3 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

7.3.1 Rioting

Mr Doherty said that there was a pattern to rioting. Initially the rioting that took place near the barriers was just like the normal type of rioting. He said that the riot had not started when the soldiers gassed everyone.

Mr Doherty said that he did not see any nail bombs or petrol bombs that day. He had seen petrol bombs used before at other riots. He said that rioting was an act of demonstration.

He said that he had never known the IRA to use the rioters as cover.

7.3.2 Damien Donaghy

Charles McDaid was 32-years old at the time of Bloody Sunday. He had sat on Derry City Council as a Nationalist Party councillor.

8.1 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

8.1.1 Warnings

Mr McDaid said that someone had telephoned his wife before Bloody Sunday and said

'Tell Junior not to go on the march because the paras are coming in.'

He learned after he had made his first statement that the caller was Jean Manning who was a telephonist at Strand Road RUC station. Mr McDaid does not know anyone else who received the same message.

He had not heard John Hume give any warnings about the march and did not know why Mr Hume had not attended the march.

8.1.2 IRA members

Mr McDaid was questioned about his statement where he had said that he did not see any known Officials at the march. He said that he would have known about 4 or 5 Officials. He also knew about 12 Provisionals but he did not see them on the march. He knew them through his work as a councillor. Mr Clarke asked for their names. Mr McDaid explained that it would be hearsay as the individuals were 'spoofed' as members of the organisations. He said that Reg Tester was not one of the Officials he was referring to.

Mr McDaid has agreed to consider giving the names of these people to the Tribunal in private. The Tribunal would them make enquiries to see whether they can help with the BSI. Lord Saville explained that he would be giving names in confidence, in the first instance. It would then be a matter for the individual to apply for anonymity.

8.1.3 Damien Donaghy and John Johnson

Mr McDaid walked down William Street and noticed 3 or 4 soldiers above the wall by the GPO. He saw boys throwing stones on the waste ground next to the Abbey Taxis building.

He heard two shots come from the north but is unable to be specific about where the shots came from. He saw John Johnston moving towards Abbey Street and shouted to him to get down because of the live rounds. He said that he heard another sharp crack from the north and Mr Johnston went down.

Mr McDaid has given evidence about Damien Donaghy before but he said that he now has no recollection of that shooting.

8.1.4 Youth assaulted by soldiers

Mr McDaid made his way down Rossville Street. He heard the APCs coming in and as he looked around he heard live rounds. He said that there were bullets whizzing past him from the direction of Little James Street towards Free Derry Corner.

He then began to slow down and glanced around for a split second. He recalls a soldier standing over a man who was lying on the ground near the corner of the north end of Block 1 of the Rossville flats.

Mr McDaid was shown the photographs of a youth being assaulted by two soldiers in this area of Rossville Street. He could not recall whether this was the same incident that he had seen.

8.1.5 The rubble barricade

Mr McDaid thinks he slowed down as he approached the rubble barricade because there were lots of people around it. As he passed the barricade he heard a boy say 'mister I'm shot.' This was Michael Kelly. Mr McDaid carried him into Glenfada Park where Father Bradley administered the Last Rites.

Mr McDaid can be seen in the photographs of the scene at the gable end of Glenfada Park North. He is looking to the east in the direction of the Rossville Flats. He said that he could see 3 to 4 people lying on the southern side of the rubble barricade. He recognised Michael McDaid because he had taught him to drive a few months earlier.

He saw a man lying on the ground with his hand raised up. He cannot recall seeing anyone crawling away to safety. Mr McDaid did not see anyone firing from behind the barricade or anyone throwing bombs or stones.

He could hear people at the south end of Block 1 of the Rossville flats shouting.

8.1.6 Evidence to the Widgery Inquiry

Mr McDaid gave evidence to the Widgery Inquiry. There are about ten points on which he gave evidence that he now has no memory of. He agreed that the BSI should use the account he gave to Lord Widgery as his evidence on those points.

8.2 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES

Mr McDaid agreed that his mind has blanked out a lot of the scenes from Bloody Sunday, in particular the scenes at Glenfada Park.

8.2.1 Rubble barricade

Mr McDaid said that it would be correct to say that the APCs came speeding into Rossville Street. He recalls soldiers running alongside the APCs but does not remember them stopping. He remembered that there were a lot of people running down Rossville Street and that within a very short period of time Michael Kelly was shot dead.

Mr McDaid said that he did not see anything to justify shooting at the barricade. He did not see anyone take weapons away from the barricade or take any weapons into Glenfada Park.

He said that everyone in Glenfada Park North was stunned and shocked. Nobody took any hostile action against the soldiers.

Mr Mallon established that the position that Mr McDaid is seen in the photograph of Glenfada Park North meant that he had a clear view to the doorway of Block 1 of the Rossville flats. Mr McDaid does not recall seeing anyone with anything like a firearm or bomb. When the hand that was raised at the barricade fell to the ground, the only shooting was coming from the north end of Rossville Street.

8.3 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

8.3.1 Warning

Mr McDaid had not told Eversheds Jean Manning's name when he made his statement to the BSI. He said that he wanted to ask her permission and to protect her job. He said that he had not thought to say that he knew the caller's name but needed to get her permission first.

James McDaid was a lieutenant in the Knights of Malta ambulance corps.

9.1 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

9.1.1 William Street and Columbcille Court

Mr McDaid was looking after a girl who was suffering from the effects of CS gas at the gable end of a house on some waste ground on William Street when he heard a boy calling for help. He turned around and saw the boy holding his leg. Mr McDaid went to tend to the boy. He said that a few minutes later the crowd told him that an older man had been shot.

Mr McDaid thinks that he was on the laundry waste ground when this happened. Johnny Lafferty from the Knights Of Malta looked after the older man.

Mr McDaid went with the boy to Mrs Shiels house in Columbcille Court. He said that he was inside the house for 15 to 20 minutes when he heard shooting. He went outside and was taken to a man who had a gunshot wound to his arm.

9.1.2 Glenfada Park North

Mr McDaid recalls seeing one body in Glenfada Park North. He cannot recall the exact location of the body and does not know who it was. He tried to go towards the body and held his respirator case with both hands above his head. He had not moved more than ten feet when he heard a bullet in front of him. He thinks it may have been a ricochet bullet or a warning shot. He went back to the gable wall of Glenfada Park North.

9.1.3 House in Abbey Park

Mr McDaid went to a house in Abbey Park. He saw a young man in the house with a chest wound. He never found out the name of the man but thinks that it may have been William McKinney or James Wray. Dr McClean was treating the man.

Mr Clarke told Mr McDaid that Michael Kelly and James Wray were taken to the same house and that William McKinney was taken to the house next door. Mr McDaid agreed that it was possible that he had gone inside both houses.

9.1.4 1972 statement

Mr McDaid had made a statement in 1972 to the Knights of Malta organisation. Mr Clarke said that the BSI have some of those statements but they do not have Mr McDaid's.

9.2 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES

9.2.1 Glenfada Park North

Mr McDaid cannot be certain about which way he entered Glenfada Park North. He confirmed that he was wearing his Knight of Malta uniform and that he had held his respirator case above his head when he tried to approach the body. A helper who carried his first aid case had followed him. There had been no shout from any soldier before the shot.

9.2.2 Abbey Park

Mr McDaid agreed that he could be confused about the houses in Abbey Park. He is certain that he had treated William McKinney because he recalls Dr McClean speaking to William McKinney.

9.3 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

9.3.1 William Street

Mr McDaid heard the sound of rubber bullets and gas being fired and noise from the crowd while he was in William Street. He does not remember hearing any live gunfire.

9.3.2 Columbcille Court

He can recall hearing gunfire while he was inside Mrs Shiels' house because the noise was distinctive. Mr McDaid said that it was not the sound of rubber bullets.

Mr McDaid said that he had not experienced any problems leaving Mrs Shiels' house. He did not see any soldiers there.

He said that the man he had been taken to after he left the house had a gunshot wound to his arm. Mr McDaid said that it looked as if a bullet had crossed the man's arm.

9.3.3 Glenfada Park North

Mr McDaid said that he thought he was in the Glenfada Park area but could not swear to it. He had no idea who had fired the shot that kept him away from the body because he did not see anyone fire.

9.3.4 First Aid Posts

Mr McDaid was aware of the First Aid Post that had been set up in the Lower Road School. It had been set up for the purposes of the march.

He found out about the First Aid Post that was set up in the Creggan but does not know whether it was set up before or after the march.

10.1 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

10.1.1 William Street

Mr Green was in the middle section of the march. He first realised that they were not going to the Guildhall when he noticed the path was blocked.

He said that he heard a small number of shots being fired when he was at the junction of Rossville Street.

Mr Green said that he saw John Johnston being carried away from the laundry waste ground towards Columbcille Court.

10.1.2 Rossville Street

Mr Green agreed that he could be confused when he had said that the Army vehicles had come from William Street. He recalls that there were lots of vehicles.

He said that he heard live bullets when he reached Kells Walk. He said that the shots were fired in one direction.

10.1.3 Glenfada Park North

Mr Green said that there were people in Glenfada Park North when he arrived there but he did not see any soldiers at that stage.

He saw one soldier run from the southwest alleyway.

10.1.4 Abbey Park

Mr Green said that he saw a body on the steps. He was shown a photograph of Gerard McKinney but said that he thinks the man he saw was wearing glasses.

He recalls one man being carried into a house in Abbey Park and thinks that it may have been Michael Kelly.

10.2 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES

10.2.1 Glenfada Park and Abbey Park

Mr Harvey suggested that Mr Green might be confused in saying that he sheltered in the Glenfada Park area. He suggested that it may have been Abbey Park. Mr Green was shown photographs and the computer panoramas and said that it might have been behind a low wall in Glenfada Park South.

10.3 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

10.3.1 BSI statement

Mr Green said that no one had suggested what he should write when he gave his BSI statement.

11.1 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

11.1.1 William Street and Damien Donaghy

Derek McFeely was in the laundry waste ground when he saw soldiers in the Abbey Taxis building. He said that the march had come to a halt and the crowd went back as far as the swimming baths at the top end of William Street. He was within 4 to 5 feet of Damien Donaghy.

Mr McFeely said that there were youths close to the Abbey Taxis building jeering at the soldiers. The youths were in the middle of William Street and on the footpath next to Abbey Taxis. He said that it is possible that the youths were throwing stones although he had not seen that.

When the shot rang out, Mr McFeely had his back to the soldiers and he crouched down. He thinks that Damien Donaghy was facing the Abbey Taxis building. He did not see Mr Donaghy fall but noticed him lying on the ground, holding his leg. He had not seen Mr Donaghy throwing stones.

Mr McFeely said that there was an excessive amount of noise and lots of loud noises coming from the front of the march. He did not hear any explosions but he could hear the sound of rubber bullets.

Mr McFeely now has no recollection of the second shot in the waste ground.

11.1.2 Glenfada Park North

Mr McFeely entered Glenfada Park North through the southwest alleyway. He was trying to reach the Rossville flats and a few people had gone through the alley in front of him.

He saw a man with a black/charcoal coat lying on the ground. He does not know who the man was but recalls that he was lying with his head facing towards the southeast corner of Glenfada Park North. Mr McFeely did not notice any other body in this area. He knelt over the body and tried to push one of the man's shoulders up to see if he was breathing. He heard the voice of someone from behind him saying 'there they come - it's the army.' Mr McFeely looked back and saw 3 or 4 soldiers running in through the northeast entrance. They were holding their rifles across their chests. Mr McFeely ran back through the southwest alley. He heard shots ringing out from behind him and said that he is sure that the shots were aimed at him.

The next day, Mr McFeely found bullet holes in the window and wall of 59 Glenfada Park North.

Mr McFeely said that he had not seen any civilians with any guns in Glenfada Park North.

11.1.3 Abbey Park

When he ran through the southwest alleyway of Glenfada Park North, he crouched behind a low wall with others including a priest.

He noticed a man with a gash in his cheek. He does not know who the man was.

After 5 to 8 minutes, Mr McFeely ran towards Fahan Street West. He remembers someone shouting 'they're shooting from the walls,' so he ran with his hands held out. Mr McFeely said that he did not think that the shots were coming from the walls.

11.2 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES

11.2.1 Glenfada Park North

Mr McFeely was in Glenfada Park North for 3 to 4 minutes. He does not recall the scene at the gable end of Glenfada Park North. He thinks that he was in Glenfada Park North before the soldiers arrived. Mr Harvey suggested that he might have forgotten certain events because Michael Kelly's body had been carried across the courtyard before the soldiers arrived.

Mr McFeely recalled that the man was lying face down. He could not see any blood. He said that it is possible he had become separated from his friend at this stage because cannot remember Donal Dunne being there at that time. (Donal Dunne recalls seeing two bodies.)

11.2.2 Abbey Park

Lord Gifford established that Mr McFeely had made his escape through Abbey Park rather than Glenfada Park South. He had hidden behind the wall that was adjacent to Abbey Park.

11.2.3 1972 statement

Mr McFeely was with Donal Dunne when they made statements in 1972. They had been together throughout the afternoon. Mr McFeely had signed Donal Dunne's statement.

Lord Gifford took Mr McFeely through Mr Dunne's statement. Mr McFeely does not recall hearing automatic gunfire. He can only recall the single shots as he left the Glenfada Park area. Mr McFeely does not recall seeing two bodies in Glenfada Park.

11.3 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF NICRA

11.3.1 Stewarding

Mr McFeely had stood in William Street for about 15 minutes. He said that everything was calm when the march came to a halt. The crowd stood still and could possibly have been stopping and starting. Mr McFeely said that they would have covered 20 to 30 yards at the most at this stage.

11.4 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

11.4.1 Columbcille Court

Mr McFeely carried Damien Donaghy with 3 or 4 others from the waste ground to the house in Columbcille Court. He remembers getting to the door of the house where Damien Donaghy was taken from him. He does not recall going inside the house.

He heard shots 10 or 15 minutes later but they did not come from the house. He did not see any gunmen in this area.

11.4.2 Glenfada Park

Mr McFeely cannot say who the body was that he saw. He said that he saw the body before he saw any soldiers enter Glenfada Park North.

11.4.3 1972 statement

Mr McFeely said that when he and Donal Dunne gave their statements, they were told to tell the statement taker who they had seen get shot. This is why Mr McFeely did not mention the body in Glenfada Park North. He had told the statement taker about Damien Donaghy because that was the only person he had actually seen getting shot.

Mr McFeely cannot recall reading Donal Dunne's statement before he signed it. When he signed Mr Dunne's statement it was simply to identify the section about Damien Donaghy.

12.1 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

12.1.1 The morning of the march

Mrs McGowan saw soldiers going into the Presbyterian Church and a derelict house on Great James Street from 7:00am on the morning of the march. She said that she believed the soldiers had gained access to the Abbey Taxis building from this route.

12.1.2 William Street and barrier 14

Mrs McGowan was close to the start of the march. She went down to barrier 14 and heard people asking the soldiers to move the barricades. She said that there was some stone throwing but it was stopped by the stewards.

Mrs McGowan said that the soldiers told the stewards that if people did not move back they would fire CS gas and shoot rubber bullets.

When the CS gas was fired Mrs McGowan ran back up William Street to the area of the waste ground. She heard a high velocity shot and threw herself to the ground. She recalls seeing the boy's hands go up in the air as he was shot. There were people in between her and the boy.

Mrs McGowan ran and remembers being pulled into one of the derelict buildings in the area of William Street.

12.2 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES

12.2.1 The waste ground

Mrs McGowan agreed that Damien Donaghy may have been shot in the laundry waste ground rather than in William Street.

12.3 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

12.3.1 William Street and barrier 14

Mrs McGowan said that the stewards were not directing people down Rossville Street. She assumed that the lorry had turned into Rossville Street because the driver knew that he would not be allowed through the barrier.

The stewards had stopped the initial stone throwing but it had started again. Mrs McGowan agreed that they were given a warning before the rubber bullets and CS gas were fired.

12.3.2 1972 statement

Mrs McGowan agreed that the part of her 1972 statement in which she said that she had gone to her friend's house in the Creggan was inaccurate.

12.3.3 IRA gunmen

Mr Elias asked Mrs McGowan where IRA gunmen would have operated from in the Bogside. Mrs McGowan said that they might have operated in Brooke Park at the top of Great James Street. She said that they did not necessarily operate in the Bogside area. She thought that they could have operated anywhere.

13.1 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

13.1.1 William Street

Mr Kelly saw soldiers in the ground floor of the Abbey Taxis building. He said that he saw boys throwing stones from the waste ground adjacent to that building.

He heard one shot and saw a boy fall. He heard people shouting that 'they're shooting'. He saw the boy fall in the waste ground that was adjacent to the Abbey Taxis building.

He did not try to find out who the boy that had fallen was but was told later that it was Damien Donaghy. He said that it could have been rubber bullets that he had heard rather than live rounds.

He also saw an older man fall on the same piece of waste ground. Mr Kelly said that it was only later that he equated the two people he had seen fall as Damien Donaghy and John Johnson.

13.1.2 Barrier 14

Mr Kelly saw so many people going down William Street that he thought the marchers were being allowed through. He went to barrier 14 and started to pull at the barrier to get through. There were people behind him throwing stones and he recalled the stewards asking everyone to move back.

When the water cannon arrived he moved back up William Street because he had borrowed his brother's coat and did not want to get it covered in dye.

Mr Kelly ran to Fahan Street West and took cover next to a hut on the corner of Lisfannon Park and Lecky Road.

13.1.3 Snatch squads

Mr Kelly was asked about snatch squads. He had seen them come in from Little James Street and Sackville Street before and also around St Eugene's cathedral. He had never seen a snatch squad go any further down Rossville Street than the junction with William Street. He had seen snatch squads in vehicles around St Eugene's but he said that usually they would come in on foot.

13.1.4 Fahan Street West

Mr Kelly saw bullets hitting the ground in Fahan Street West and sparks flying off the concrete. He said that there were possibly 3 or 4 shots. He shouted to the people he was with to run back across the road to the south of Glenfada Park South. He thought that the shots were coming from the walls.

13.1.5 Abbey Street

Mr Kelly edged up the alleyway that ran between Abby Park and Glenfada Park. He saw two bodies on top of the steps in Abbey Street.

He said that it looked as if the bodies had been placed there because they were both flat on their backs and positioned parallel to each other. He was told that people had placed them there and then fled when the soldiers came.

He recalls a woman shouting from the window of a house in Abbey Street to him that the soldiers were shooting.

13.1.6 Glenfada Park North

Mr Kelly could see Joe Mahon trying to crawl through the alley from Glenfada Park North to Abbey Park. Mr Mahon was calling 'help me - I'm shot.' Mr Kelly could see the body of James Wray beyond Mr Mahon.

Mr Kelly went into the alley when Joe Mahon called to him. He held a white handkerchief out. He saw a soldier leaning against the lamppost near the gable end of Glenfada Park North. The soldier had his rifle held to the ground and was looking in the direction of Free Derry Corner.

As Mr Kelly went towards Joe Mahon, the soldier turned and looked at him. Mr Kelly held out his handkerchief and shouted 'don't shoot.' The soldier swung around and pointed his rifle at Mr Kelly. Mr Kelly backed away and then stumbled, falling on his back. He heard the soldier fire one shot at him but was told by others that three shots were fired.

Mr Kelly can only recall one soldier and said that all he can remember is watching the soldier's rifle.

He saw Evelyn Lafferty running out shouting 'Red Cross - do not shoot.' Mr Kelly then recalls hearing a whistle and the soldier turned and ran back up Rossville Street.

13.1.7 William McKinney

Mr Kelly thought that William McKinney was one of the bodies in Abbey Park. He was shown photographs of William McKinney and James Wray being carried through the alleyway from Glenfada Park North into Abbey Park. Mr Kelly can be seen on the photograph as one of the people carrying Mr McKinney. Mr Kelly agreed that he was mistaken in thinking that William McKinney was one of the bodies on the steps of Abbey Park.

13.1.8 Bullet holes

Mr Kelly said that after the bodies were removed from Glenfada Park North he had seen 4 to 6 bullet holes in the wall next to where James Wray had fallen. He did not notice holes in the window.

13.2 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES

13.2.1 William Street

Mr Kelly agreed that what he could have seen on William Street was a youth falling and an older man going to his assistance. Later, when he heard about John Johnson and Damien Donaghy, he thought that was what he must have witnessed.

13.2.2 Glenfada Park and Abbey Park

Mr Kelly came onto the scene after the shootings had occurred. When he made his statement to the BSI, he had not been shown the photographs that helped him to locate the areas where he had been. At the time of Bloody Sunday, Glenfada Park and Abbey Park were new developments that he had never been to before.

Mr Kelly recalls people taking cover along the garden walls on the Abbey Park side of Glenfada Park North.

The soldier in Glenfada Park North could have had his face blackened with camouflage paint.

13.3 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF NICRA

13.3.1 Stewarding

The stewards at barrier 14 had ushered people away from the barrier. Stones were landing on the stewards as they tried to do this. He did not think that the stoning was heavy at this stage. Mr Kelly said that he stood tight against the barrier for 2 or 3 minutes and moved away when the water cannon was brought out.

13.4 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

13.4.1 1972 evidence

Mr Kelly said that he had not mentioned the boy falling in William Street in any of his 1972 evidence because it would not have been considered serious enough in light of the number of people killed that day.

He agreed that he would have been reluctant to admit that he was on an illegal march when he made his 1972 statement. He said that he felt he could have been arrested at any stage of the march because it had been banned.

13.4.2 Barrier 14

Mr Kelly agreed that it is possible he missed serious rioting at barrier 14. He said that the rioting at the barrier that was shown on the television was more serious than the rioting he had witnessed.

He thinks that a policeman announced that the water cannon would be used. He does not remember any warnings about rubber bullets or CS gas.

13.4.3 Glenfada Park

Mr Kelly recalls the soldier leaning against the lamppost in Glenfada Park North. He could not say whether any of the shooting was justified because he arrived on the scene afterwards.

Mr Kelly did not turn his back on the soldier who fired at him. He had backed out of Glenfada Park North and then fallen backwards. Some people told him that it was the same soldier who had shot at Evelyn Lafferty.

Mr Kelly did not see anyone at the gable end of Glenfada Park North.

13.4.4 Fahan Street West

Mr Kelly had not seen any soldiers on the city walls. He assumed the firing was coming from the walls because of the position he was in. Mr Elias suggested that if the shots were coming from the walls, Mr Kelly had made himself more vulnerable by standing at the northeast corner of the hut. Mr Kelly said that he was in a panic and ran to a brick wall to try and get cover.

13.4.5 Abbey Street

Mr Kelly said that he did not have any problems leaving the house that he had carried William McKinney's body to in Abbey Park.

13.4.6 Memory

Mr Kelly agreed that it would be a fair assumption that anyone would be affected by what they had read, been told or seen after the passage of 28 years. However he said that there are instances in his mind that are as clear today as they were 28 years ago.

14.1 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE TRIBUNAL

14.1.1 Waste ground and William Street

Mr McCrossan saw soldiers on the roof of the GPO. He noticed one of the soldiers had knelt down on his right knee and lifted his rifle.

Mr McCrossan stepped out of the line of fire when he saw the soldier take aim with his rifle. The soldier opened fire and an elderly man who had been standing behind Mr McCrossan staggered and fell back.

14.1.2 Glenfada Park/Abbey Park/Columbcille Court

Mr McCrossan recalls getting to under a pram ramp. He saw the body of a young person and recalls the body lying close to a fence. He recalls two soldiers hanging around. He thinks he heard a young man shout 'you murdering bastards.' He said that the soldier with the gun started firing.

Mr McCrossan was in an alleyway and can remember a scout car appearing. He saw bullets flying past him and strike the ground. He thinks the soldiers were trying to kill him. He threw himself over the wall and fell onto a girl who was wearing a white coat.

Mr McCrossan thinks that he saw the scout car in Columbcille Court.

14.2 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE FAMILIES

14.2.1 Glenfada Park/Abbey Park

Mr McCrossan recalls sheltering under a pram ramp but does not recall where it was. He remembers trying to restrain a hysterical boy. He saw 3 soldiers and one soldier stopped in the alleyway for a couple of minutes. He can remember a grassed area and someone trying to get transport for injured people.

Mr McCrossan thinks that it may have been Abbey Street that he ran across.

14.3 QUESTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SOLDIERS

14.3.1 William Street/waste ground

Mr McCrossan said he is not mistaken about the location that the elderly man was shot or about the soldier aiming his gun at him.

14.3.2 NICRA statement

Mr McCrossan did not make a statement to NICRA because he thought it would be a waste of time.

14.3.3 Thompson sub machine guns

Mr McCrossan said that he was familiar with the sound of Thompson sub machine guns. He said that they would be fired from Central Drive, the cemetery and the Creggan. Mr McCrossan described the Creggan as a battlefield. He said that he was not aware of the Thompson being used in the Bogside.

15 APPLICATION BY MARTIN McGUINNESS FOR FULL INTERESTED PARTY STATUS AT BSI

Mr McGrory represented Mr McGuinness in his application to the Tribunal.

15.1 SUBMISSIONS ON BEHALF OF MR McGUINNESS

Mr McGrory said that Mr McGuinness intends to make a statement and give evidence at the BSI. He said that Mr McGuinness needed to have a permanent lawyer at the BSI before making a statement.

15.1.1 The same level of representation as the soldiers

Mr McGrory said that Mr McGuinness is not an ordinary witness. It is said that he was the Officer in Command of the IRA in Derry and that he was personally responsible for members of that organisation. Mr McGrory said that this elevates his position to that of any of the soldiers. He said that Mr McGuinness should be treated no differently from the soldiers who have full representation at the BSI.

Mr McGuinness is also in a different position to other witnesses because he is an MP and the Minister of Education in the Northern Ireland administration.

15.1.2 Comprehensive statement

Mr McGrory submitted that it would be of greater assistance to the Tribunal for Mr McGuinness to be allowed an overview of all the material available to the BSI. This would enable him to give one comprehensive statement in which he could deal with all the issues at once rather than in a piecemeal fashion as they are raised.

15.2 TRIBUNAL'S RULING

Lord Saville said that it would not be an injustice to ask Mr McGuinness for a witness statement now. He said that the Tribunal will be very sympathetic to an application for represented status in view of the allegations that have been made. The Tribunal ruled that they would not grant him full party status unless and until he provides a witness statement.

The BSI rose for the Christmas break. The proceedings will resume on 15th January 2001.

Monday 11 para 1 - 4.2.3
Tuesday 12 para - 8.3.1
Wednesday 13 para 9 - 12.3.3 and para 15 - 15.2
Thursday 14 para 13 - 14.3.3

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