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16
DECEMBER 2003
Evidence heard
This week the Inquiry heard from the following witnesses:
Thomas Barr; Michael Kivelehan; and Gearoid OhEara (Gerry O’Hara) Fianna, Derry 1972).
Summary of Evidence
Tuesday 16 December 2003 Thomas Barr; Michael Kivelahan; and Gearoid ÓhEára
A full transcript of the proceedings is available at http://www.bloody-sunday-inquiry.org.uk.
Numbers in square brackets refer to the code given to a particular document by the Inquiry.
INTRODUCTION
Due to shortage of witnesses this week the Inquiry only sat on Tuesday 16 December 2003. It heard evidence from Gearoid ÓhEára (aka Gerry O’Hara) who was the leader of the Derry Fianna in 1972. Thomas Barr and Michael Kivelahan also gave evidence. The Inquiry rose for Christmas and will return on 12 January 2004 to complete hearing oral evidence.
Thomas Barr
Made statement to the Inquiry on 2 December 2003 [AB0117.0001]
Thomas Barr was 16 on Bloody Sunday. He lived in Block 3 of the Rossville Flats with his parents and sisters. His sisters Dolores McFarland and Maureen Gerke have already given evidence to the Inquiry.
Mr. Barr said Hugh Gilmour was a very good friend of his. He saw him every day and knew him very well. He was not involved with the IRA. He worked as a mechanic at a tyre fitters and had just bought his first car. He was obsessed with it. They had arranged to meet before the march and Hugh Gilmour came around about an hour before it was due to start. However Mr. Barr’s mother would not let him go on the march and stood guard at the door to stop him. This was the last time he saw Hugh Gilmour alive. Mr. Barr said, had he gone, he would have been next to Hugh or very close to him when he died.
The situation was tense because the Paras were known to be in Derry and they had attacked marchers at Magilligan the week before. There was bound to be a riot after the march. His recollection is that his mother did not want him to go because of what the Paras had done at Magilligan. He watched the events of the day from the bedroom window of their maisonette which overlooked the Rossville Flats car park, Rossville Street and the junction with William Street.
He and his sister saw the march as it reached the top of Rossville Street. He also heard rubber bullets being fired. He assumed it was almost over and people would come down to Free Derry Corner for speeches. He did not hear any live gunfire before the army came in. Nor did he hear any explosions. All he remembers is a lot of rubber bullets being fired.
Paras Coming in
Mr. Barr said he saw the armoured cars drive down Rossville Street. The crowd scattered. The vehicles drove in fast and people ran in all directions. The car park became full of people fleeing. People formed a sort of funnel at each of the two gaps between Blocks 1 and 2 and between Blocks 2 and 3. People panicked and at first he thought it was an arrest operation. He saw a vehicle stop at the mouth of the car park. The Paras got out and there was pandemonium. He heard bangs which he thought were rubber bullets. There were people running through the gaps, others cowering behind the low wall in front of Block 2 and more out of sight below him next to the high retaining wall of Block 3.
Gunfire
There were soldiers milling around the vehicle and one in particular at the north east corner of Block 1. Mr. Barr remembered him because during a lull in the shooting he heard him shout sectarian insults in a Scottish accent. Mr. Barr said he was not sure when the shooting started but it was soon after the soldiers got out of the vehicles. At first he thought they were firing rubber bullets, it took him a while to realise they were also firing live rounds.
The soldiers did not advance into the car park but remained near the vehicle and the north end of Block 1. Mr. Barr did not see any missiles thrown at the soldiers.
Jackie Duddy
He saw Father Daly turn over the body of a young lad who was lying in the car park. He could see the blood and this was the first he knew that anyone had been shot. Another man who he knew, Charlie Glenn, approached the body. The shooting was still continuing and at one point Father Daly had to lie flat whilst administering the last rights.
Mickey Bridge
He then saw another man approach the group around Jackie Duddy’s body. He was waving his arms and shouting something like “Don’t shoot the priest, shoot me!” His voice was clearly audible. The man was then shot in the leg, apparently by a soldier at the north east corner of Block 1. The man was clearly unarmed and seeing him shot caused Mr. Barr to fear for his own life. The solider who shot him must have known he was no threat.
Mr. Barr said he could not remember much after that and he may have left the window having seen too much already. He has a vague memory of seeing Jackie Duddy being carried away but this may be because he has seen it on television.
Father Daly’s Gunman (OIRA 4)
Mr. Barr said he did see a civilian gunman but was not completely sure of the sequence. Jackie Duddy was already dead or dying in the car park and he thinks Mickey Bridge had also been shot before he saw the gunman. However he is not certain. The gunman, who has become known as Father Daly’s gunman because he also saw him, was on his own and moved very slowly west towards the end of the gable wall on the west side of Chamberlain Street. When he got to the end he fired 2 or 3 shots towards William Street. Mr. Barr said he thought the man was mad and only realised he had a gun when he got to the corner. The soldiers did not notice him because they could have easily shot or captured him but made no attempt to do so.
As soon as the gunman fired the crowd started to shout at him. Even this did not appear to attract the soldiers’ attention to him. His shots may have been drowned out by their own firing but Mr. Barr was pretty sure he heard them. After he fired he came back along the gable wall and then towards the retaining wall below Block 3.
Car Riddled with Bullets
At some point Mr. Barr saw a couple come from the direction of the flats towards a car at the south end of the eastern most line of car parking spaces. There was a man in his mid 20s or early 30s and a girl with black hair. He thought they were mad. It must have been towards the end of the shooting but there was still firing going on elsewhere if not in the car park itself. As they got quite close to the car soldiers opened fire and riddled the car with bullets. All the glass was smashed and the car jumped around as it was hit. The girl became hysterical. He could not remember where the couple went, they were not hit. Mr. Barr said he was positive there was no gunman at the car. If there had been a gunman behind the car, as alleged by the soldiers, he would have seen him. The couple were unarmed.
Being Fired At
At some point a soldier at the corner of Block 1 looked up towards the window he was at and pointed his rifle. He was definitely pointing it in Mr. Barr’s direction rather than at any other window. He dived away and heard the sound of a bullet striking concrete outside. He felt his life was threatened. He could not remember whether or not he actually saw the soldier fire.
Then later the soldiers just got into the vehicle and left. They were all in shock in the house. Mr. Barr went out and saw blood near to the telephone kiosk behind Block 1. He also saw blood inside the south west entrance to Block 1, inside the double doors and on the stairs there. There was a pool of blood on the landing. The bodies had all gone by this time. People were walking around in shock. A friend’s sister was crying in Fahan Street and she told him Hugh Gilmour had been killed.
Mr. Barr also knew Michael Kelly; they were in the same class at school. He was quite quiet and worked as an electrician in Belfast. He also played football with Gerard Donaghy. He did not know he was in the Fianna. He was part of what they called the ‘Central Gang’ because they hung around the Central Café on William Street. Gerry Doherty said has said he was with Thomas Barr on the march but Mr. Barr said he did not think he knew Gerry Doherty.
Mr. Barr’s impression was that the soldiers had been intent on killing and got away with murder.
Michael Kivelehan
Made statement to the Inquiry on 1 June 2003 [AK0045.0002]
Mr. Kivelehan was 24 on Bloody Sunday. He did not want to give evidence to the Inquiry and only attended under threat of subpoena. He said his reluctance was because he felt no good would come of him giving evidence.
Mr. Kivelehan was at his aunt’s (Jenny Organ) funeral on 30 January 1972. He could not remember joining the march but he must have left the wake at his grandmother’s house at some point because he does remember being in William Street when the Paras drove in. His grandmother, Annie Doherty, lived at 19 Glenfada Park North which was in the west block.
Paras Coming In
Mr. Kivelehan could not remember much of what happened. He saw the pigs drive down Rossville Street and onto the waste ground. He saw soldiers jump out, some with batons. He ran towards the rubble barricade and had to run past some of the soldiers. There was shooting all around but he could not tell from exactly where it was coming. He did not feel particularly at risk, he just wanted to get away. He thinks he climbed over the rubble barricade and lay on the Free Derry Corner side. He did not remember firing at the barricade. His brother Johnny was at the barricade and he tore his trousers as they both got up to run to Glenfada Park. As soon as there was a lull in the shooting they ran towards his gran’s house. He did not remember being aware of anyone having been shot. He could not recognise himself on any of the photographs of people at the rubble barricade but he did identify Pat McDevitt as the man ducking in the foreground on the left of P0413.
Glenfada Park North
They got inside his grandmother’s house before there were any soldiers in Glenfada Park North. At some point there was a banging on the door and he did not want to let anyone in until he realised it was his brother-in-law John McCourt. Later when they spoke he realised Mr. McCourt’s hair was covered in shrapnel.
Soldier Firing
At another point he looked out and saw a soldier standing at the north east entrance to Glenfada Park North. He saw the soldier for some seconds, it was not just a glimpse. He dropped to his knee and fired his rifle. He could not remember how many shots he fired. He was firing towards the centre of the south side of the car park. Mr. Kivelehan dived down and did not look out again but remembers sporadic gunfire going on for ages.
Mr. Kivelehan’s wife Helen was also in the house as was his sister Jane McCourt, his brother Johnny, his mother Mary Ann Kivelehan and possibly his father Michael. Some of them were under the table. Mr. Kivelehan said he had great difficulty remembering who was there or what happened but at some point his wife looked out onto Abbey Park and said there were bodies lying there.
Mr. Kivelehan said he could not remember leaving the house or going home but he did recall seeing the two bodies outside Raymond Rogan’s house in Abbey Park and another body near the Rossville Flats.
Interview with John Goddard
Mr. Kivelehan said he did not recall speaking to a journalist in 1991 but accepted he may have done. Commenting on the notes of the interview [AK0045.0001] Mr. Kivelehan said the journalist was wrong when he said he had seen two men shot earlier in the day. It may be a reference to Peter Robson and Peter McLaughlin being shot the day before Bloody Sunday. The notes refer to him being at the rubble barricade with his brother and brother-in-law but his brother-in-law was not there. He said he could not recall making efforts to get them to speak to the journalist.
Nail Bombs
Mr. Kivelehan agreed the notes were accurate in most respects in describing his recollections of what had happened and where he was. However he denied any knowledge of seeing nail bombs or a gun. The notes record:
Off the Record:
-Man with short arm in their flat, disarmed and got rid of.
-Two nail bombs dumped in street outside his flat. Know because dragged the two boys in who had them.
Mr. Kivelehan said he vaguely remembered John McCourt bringing a young man of about 18 or 19 into the house but he knew nothing about any nail bombs or short arm. The journalist, John Goddard, has told the Inquiry [DAY 233, page 200] that a number of members of the family gave a very detailed account of the gun being broken up in the house.
Gerry ÓhEára
Fianna, Derry 1972
Made statements to the Inquiry on 11 March 2000 [AO0079.0002] and 17 October 2003 [AO0079.0009]
Gerry ÓhEára was 18 years old on Bloody Sunday. He is now a Sinn Fein councillor. He recently made a supplemental statement to the Inquiry to deal with his involvement in the Fianna Eireann. Mr. ÓhEára said the leadership of the Fianna was collective and he was part of an inner circle. He was nominal leader of this inner circle because he was the person chosen to deal with the IRA liaison officer who was their contact with the IRA. He had no title and was not an officer commanding as such. He said he had not mentioned his involvement with the Fianna in his original statement because he was on the march as a member of the Civil Rights Association, not the Fianna. He refused to name the IRA Liaison Officer but said he would approach him to see if he would give evidence.
He said his reason for now mentioning his role in the Fianna was because of press reports about Paddy Ward. He knew much of what Paddy Ward said was untrue. He also said he was close to Gerard Donaghy and wanted to put the record straight that neither Gerard Donaghy nor any other member of the Fianna was involved in military activity on Bloody Sunday.
Fianna
The Fianna was a scouting organisation set up at the turn of the 20th Century. It used to drill and march in parades. It was only after Bloody Sunday that it became more organised along military lines. Before then it was only a loosely organised group of young people. He knew Patsy Moore who he described as a scout master.
When the IRA split the Fianna in Derry was aligned to the Officials. However towards the end of 1971 most of the members moved over to side with the Provisionals because they were more active and dynamic. There were only about 15-20 members and in October or November 1971 all but 3 moved over to the Provos. He and Gerard Donaghy were two of those who joined the Provos. They were not asked to join by Martin McGuinness.
Paddy Ward
Mr. ÓhEára said he knew Paddy Ward quite well. They grew up together. They lived close to each other and used to play football together. Paddy Ward was not part of the Fianna, however he may have been on the fringes. Mr. ÓhEára said he had no recollection of Paddy Ward ever being a member of the Fianna. There were 15-20 full members and another 15-20 on the periphery. He is wrong when he says the Fianna were involved in military operations. The Fianna changed dramatically after Bloody Sunday, as did everything else, and this might be what Paddy Ward is referring to. Mr. ÓhEára insisted the Fianna had no military role on Bloody Sunday.
Mr. ÓhEára said the period between 1972 and 1973 was chaotic and the Fianna might briefly have had access to weapons and explosives. A lot of young people joined at this time. However after 1973 things changed again and the military role was restricted to the IRA.
Before Bloody Sunday the Fianna did not even have formal meetings. They tended to meet casually on street corners or at shops. Mr. ÓhEára said he had no recollection of Paddy Ward at these informal meetings. He said there was no weapons training or even political education. They would not have been privy to information about storage or importing of weapons. The Fianna acted as eyes and ears of the ‘no go’ areas but were not involved militarily. He knew because he was the contact for the IRA. The Fianna was a scout organisation linked to a military one. They did not even scout for IRA military operations. There were considered too young. He said there was no swearing in to become a member. Membership was down to a collective decision of the existing members. Their decision would be based on local knowledge, the person’s family background and what they thought of them. He did not remember Paddy Ward ever asking to join. However there were people who trailed along without being members. There was no cell structure until the late 1970s. It was a place for young people drawn to the Republican movement.
Limerick
In April 1971 Mr. ÓhEára, Gerard Donaghy and another were arrested and falsely charged with riotous behaviour. They did not want to end up in prison for 6 months so it was arranged for them to stay with someone in Limerick for a while. In their absence Gerard Donaghy was sentenced to six months and Mr. ÓhEára got a suspended sentence. He returned to Derry on about 20 August 1971 just after Eamonn Lafferty was shot on the 18th. Gerard Donaghy was imprisoned on his return and was not released until 23 December 1971. They attended a Fianna camp in Limerick whilst they were away. This did not involve weapons training. They were trained how to drill and march. They were taught navigation and endurance. It was a scout camp. He denied intelligence reports [INT0001.0317] that suggested Gerard Donaghy was involved in weapons training. He was not in Derry and when he returned he went to prison.
Mr. ÓhEára said the reference to him in another anonymous RUC Special Branch interview [INT0001.0044] as a get away driver for Dennis McFeely was wrong. He was not in Derry until 20 August 1971 and the person being interviewed probably gave his name for that reason. There was pressure on people to give names. He knew nothing about Dennis McFeely trying to shoot a soldier in William Street. The suggestion that he and Gerard Donaghy stole the army uniforms taken from a cleaners on 9 January 1972 was also wrong [INT0001.0333]. He knew who had taken them. It was two people associated with the Fianna but they were not full members.
Mr. ÓhEára said the Fianna had no involvement with nail bombs or any sort of explosives. These were thrown by IRA volunteers. The Fianna may have made and used petrol bombs. This was a normal part of a riot, it was not organised. Mr. ÓhEára said he occasionally saw an unexploded nail bomb after a riot when they failed to detonate. He never saw a nail bomb in a can.
30 January 1972
On the morning of 30 January 1972 Mr. ÓhEára went to call for Dennis McFeely but he had already left. He met up with him and a number of others at Central Drive. The others included Frank McCarron, Ciaran McLuaghlin, Hugh O’Donnell and Gerard Donaghy. Conal McFeely may have been there but he did not recall seeing Jim Begely. They were just a group of friends, it was not a Fianna meeting. It was a big march, a nice day and the mood was good. He mingled with the crowd.
Damien Donaghy
He was in the middle of the march. When he got to William Street there were rumours that Bubbles Donaghy (Damien Donaghy) had been shot from the flat roof where soldiers often operated. Mr. ÓhEára said the IRA and army would often take up positions opposite each other and take pot shots at one another across the waste ground/William Street. The army would fire from the old church and the IRA from the washrooms near a Republican house in Columbcille Court. He marked the position from which IRA snipers operated [AO0079.0020].
The bulk of the march turned south into Rossville Street but he and his friends went towards the army barrier in William Street. The street was packed and a riot started. It was not a serious riot by Derry standards. They did not take part. They just stood around because it was more interesting than listening to speeches. In an interview with the journalist Peter Taylor, Conal McFeely said he was with his brother Dennis, Gerard Donaghy, Frank McCarron and others and that they threw stones [I0209]. Mr. ÓhEára said he did not throw stones on Bloody Sunday. He said 90% of people at a riot were spectators.
Paras Coming In
He said he ended up at Chamberlain Street with Gerard Donaghy, Dennis McFeely, Paddy O’Hagan and possibly Ciaran McLaughlin. He thinks he heard the army vehicles as they drove down Rossville Street, a shout went up and he ran south into Chamberlain Street. He turned left into Eden Place and found soldiers on foot level with him also running south. He was heading for the north end of Block 1 of the Rossville Flats. An army Saracen turned off Rossville Street and cut across ahead of him into the entrance to the car park. He reached the doorway to the flats where there were already 8-10 people. The Saracen stopped just to his left and the back doors flew open. A soldier jumped out holding his rifle at his hip.
Firing
Mr. ÓhEára said he threw a bottle at the soldier hitting him or the door of the vehicle. Immediately the soldier started firing from the hip in his direction. He said he watched the soldier fire but only realised they were live rounds when he heard them hit the concrete around him. The soldier fired 2-6 shots. There was screaming and panic. They all ran up the stairs into the building. His impression was that the firing continued as he was running.
He ran onto the second floor balcony. He was on his own and crawled along the balcony. He looked down and did not see anything being thrown from the flats into the car park. He saw soldiers at the Saracen and a line of them at the backs of the Chamberlain Street houses. There was pandemonium in the car park and constant gunfire. It was SLR fire. People were running towards the gaps either side of Block 2 trying to escape. Someone was on the ground and a few people gathered around the body. There was a soldier at the north west corner of the Saracen with his rifle in the firing position but he did not see him fire.
Michael Bridge
Mr. ÓhEára saw a man he now knows to be Mickey Bridge emerge from the group around the body and approach the Saracen. He was shouting at the soldiers. He had his arms outstretched and presented no threat but he was shot and went down like a sack of spuds. There was then a commotion. Either because he shouted something from the balcony or because a woman three doors along called him into her flat gunfire was directed towards the balcony. He did not know where it came from.
Rossville Street
He went into the flat which belonged to Ka (Katherine) Cunningham. There were 8-10 people already in the flat. Peggy and Patsy Brolly were there. He went into the living room and looked out onto Rossville Street. He saw soldiers in a line from the north end of Block 1 to Kells Walk and the Credit Union at the end of Abbey Street. Some were running up and down the alleyway leading from Rossville Street to the Credit Union. Others were running through Columbcille Court into Glenfada Park. There was a lot of firing. There were also a lot of army vehicles in Rossville Street.
He saw two soldiers lying on the ground near the pram ramp at the north east end of Glenfada Park North. They were lying side by side and firing south down Rossville Street. He saw them fire on three or four occasions. It seemed like they were firing to keep everyone down. They were both laughing. One of them was black.
Rubble Barricade
He also saw civilians lying behind the rubble barricade. They were pinned down and hugging the stones for cover. There were less than 10 of them and they were trying to crawl to Glenfada Park for safety. Jim Begley was amongst them. There was a crowd at the gable wall at the entrance to Glenfada Park North calling to those on the barricade. They managed to get away but left 3 or 4 bodies on the barricade.
There was some panic in the flat and someone said the Paras were going to come into the flats and shoot everyone. The Ferret car with the Browning machine gun on top moved up to a position just below the window. He then heard the heavy pump from a heavy calibre machine gun. He was sure the Browning was fired.
At some point he was at the window with Patsy Brolly when they saw two photographers in civilians clothes in Rossville Street. Other witnesses in the flat have said the photographers were in the car park (Annie Curran) or that they were watching from Block 2 (the Brollys). Mr. ÓhEára was certain he was with Mr. Brolly in Block 1 looking out onto Rossville Street. Mr. Brolly started hammering on the window to attract the photographers’ attention. He tried to stop him because he was attracting attention to the flat. Suddenly the window blew in and Mr. Brolly fell back with blood on his face. Everyone in the flat went mad. At first they thought he had been shot in the head but later they discovered a rubber bullet.
He was sent out to get first aid for Mr. Brolly but before he went he saw a Saracen move up to the rubble barricade. There was still gunfire and he hugged the wall as he moved along the balcony. He found a male para-medic who came to the flat to tend to Mr. Brolly. Mr. ÓhEára did not go back into the flat but went out onto Rossville Street. He did not see any bodies but did see patches of blood where they had been. He went across to Glenfada Park and was told Gerard Donaghy had been shot.
Mr. ÓhEára met Ciaran McLaughlin who had a bullet hole in his jacket. He said he had been shot at as he ran away. He did not say where this had happened. They then went to Gerard Donaghy’s sisters’ flat in Meenan Square. After Bloody Sunday Gerard Donaghy’s sister gave him Gerry’s denim jacket. He disposed of it because it was covered in blood and entrails.
He then walked home in shock. He had nightmares about what he had seen. He gave an interview to John Goddard in 1992 but it was not used [AO0079.0001].
Gerard Donaghy
Mr. ÓhEára said he would have known had Gerard Donaghy had nail bombs on him on Bloody Sunday. He was sure he did not. He was with him watching the riot and he was sure he did not have any nail bombs on him. There was no meeting before Bloody Sunday to discuss a nail bombing operation, no one in the Fianna made up nail bombs in Beechwood Avenue as Paddy Ward described. His account is incredible. Mr. ÓhEára said he was instructed by the IRA liaison officer that there was not to be even any rioting on the day. He was told this on the Saturday. He was to tell everyone else in the Fianna.
At the close of his evidence Lord Saville said it may be necessary for him to be recalled to revisit the issue of identifying those he had refused to name.
For Peace Justice & Human Rights
