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24 - 27
NOVEMBER 2003
Evidence heard
This week the Inquiry heard from the following witnesses:
Eddie Dobbins, Gerard Doherty, Ann Gallagher, Gerry Campbell, Willie Breslin, James McKnight and Alexander McFadden.
Summary of Evidence
Monday 24 November 2003 Eddie Dobbins (cont.), Gerard Doherty
Tuesday 25 November 2003 Did not sit
Wednesday 26 November 2003 Ann Gallagher, Gerry Campbell, William Breslin, James McKnight,
Alexander McFadden
A full transcript of the proceedings is available at http://www.bloody-sunday-inquiry.org.uk.
Numbers in square brackets refer to the code given to a particular document by the Inquiry.
INTRODUCTION
Eddie Dobbins began his evidence on Thursday 20 November 2003 and completed it on Monday 24. His evidence is included in last week’s report. This week, due to a shortage of witnesses, the Inquiry only sat on Monday and Wednesday.
Gerry ‘Mad Dog’ Doherty was a member of the Provisional IRA in 1972. He was unarmed on Bloody Sunday. Gerry Campbell witnessed the shootings of James Wray, Gerard Donaghy and Gerard McKinney from 7 Abbey Park. Willie Breslin was recalled to deal with his contact with Liam Clarke. The Inquiry has been unable to schedule any of the remaining witnesses to appear next week so it will not now sit until 8 December 2003.
Gerard Doherty
Volunteer, Provisional IRA (1972)
Made Statements to the Inquiry on 14 July 1999 [AD0065.0001] and 17 October 2003 [AD0065.0019]
Gerard Doherty first made a statement to the Inquiry in 1999. He has recently made a supplemental statement detailing his membership of the Provisional IRA in 1972. Mr. Doherty said he did not mention he had been an IRA volunteer in his first statement for several reasons. He said the IRA is a secret organisation and he would not volunteer information about his membership to anyone without good reason. He saw no reason to mention it to Eversheds because he was not on active service on Bloody Sunday and he did not have a weapon. Furthermore he did not know at that time the extent of the immunity from prosecution regarding anything he might be asked about his involvement in the IRA.
He has now been advised as to the Attorney General’s undertaking regarding self incrimination, in particular the widening of the immunity last year. Martin McGuinness has also given evidence and publicly encouraged others to do so. Mr. Doherty was also asked to come forward specifically by representatives of the families. He said when the Inquiry began there was no faith in it and having spent his life avoiding British courts he saw no reason to open himself up to questioning about his activities in the IRA. However he said confidence in the Inquiry has increased over time and he was aware of Lord Saville’s request for IRA witnesses to come forward. Therefore circumstances had changed and he was now content to admit he was a volunteer in the IRA in 1972.
Mr. Doherty said he joined the IRA after the introduction of Internment in August 1971. He was only 16 at the time but said he was 17½. He was not 17 until a few days after Bloody Sunday. He said there were a total of around 40-50 Provisional IRA volunteers in 1972. This included active and non-active members, e.g. older members. He was in the Bogside section. He said he would not identify his section leader or anyone one else in the IRA. There were 4 or 5 others in the section. He was known by the nickname ‘Mad Dog’.
Convictions
On 23 September 1974 Mr. Doherty was convicted of unlawfully causing an explosion on 21 September 1971, attempted murder of a soldier on 25 April 1972 and causing an explosion on 16 June 1972 when he blew up the Guildhall in Derry. He was sentenced to a total of 15 years imprisonment.
Briefing
Mr. Doherty said the night before Bloody Sunday he was briefed by his section leader that they were to do nothing the next day. His understanding was that these orders covered the whole day and not just the duration of the march. He did not have a weapon so did not have to hand it in. The orders would have come from the command staff. He assumed the orders were the same for everyone. He did not know at the time that there were two sections, the Brandywell and one of the two Creggan sections, on active service defending their areas on the day. He only learnt this later. He did not see them on the day.
Weapons
Mr. Doherty said weapons were the responsibility of the quartermasters. There was a quartermaster on the command staff and one for each section. As a volunteer he did not know where the arms dumps were but they only had about 15-20 weapons in total at the time. No one had private weapons. Weapons were distributed when needed for operations. The sort of weapons they had were vintage .303s, a couple of Thompson sub machine guns and the odd M1 carbine. He said he thought the Official IRA’s weapons were even older.
Mr. Doherty also said explosives were in short supply and were controlled by the engineers. He did not know who the engineer/explosives officer was in January 1972. There was some gelignite but he did not know where it came from.
Magilligan
Mr. Doherty said he had not been at Magilligan the week before Bloody Sunday but everyone had heard about the Paras attacking people on the beach. They were angry and he and his friends wanted to sort them out.
30 January 1972
Mr. Doherty said he joined the march in the Brandywell. He was with Thomas Barr on the march and also spoke to Hugh Gilmore who was shot dead later. Mr. Doherty was looking for his friend Martin McGilloway but did not find him.
Whilst walking along William Street Mr. Doherty noticed soldiers on the roof of the Presbyterian Church. There were one or two to the left of the church and more to the right. People in the crowd shouted “we can see you.” He said he was aware there was a possibility they would not be allowed to get to the Guildhall but he thought there were so many of them they would have to be let through.
Barrier 14
When he got to the junction with Rossville Street the head of the march had already turned down Rossville Street. Stewards were telling people to go south down Rossville Street but being young and head strong he ran past the stewards and carried on up William Street. He made his way to barrier 14 with a crowd of about 500 people. There were about 50 of them throwing stones and trying to pull the barrier away. However the barrier was very secure and there were army vehicles parked across the road behind it. He threw some stones.
The stewards tried to persuade people out of a confrontation but they were angry about being stopped from going to the Guildhall. Rubber bullets were fired and at some point the water cannon was used but Mr. Doherty said he managed not to get wet at all. He did not recall CS gas being fired at barrier 14 but there was some drifting over from Little James Street. He said the riot was tame compared to some he had seen. There were no petrol bombs, snatch squads or hand to hand fighting. The soldiers were safe behind the barrier and there was no way the crowd were going to get through. There were more spectators than rioters.
He also noticed a sniper above the barrier in McCools shop. There is a photograph showing the sniper with his rifle protruding [P0603], this was Soldier 128. He was obviously there to protect the barricade. At about this time Mr. Doherty says he spotted the Paras waiting behind barricade. They looked different to the soldiers on the barricade who were familiar even though he did not know their regiment. People shouted “come on!” goading the soldiers to come in.
Aggro Corner
After 10-20 minutes Mr. Doherty said he left barrier 14 and went to Little James Street. He could smell CS gas when he got to Little James Street. He met Sean Keenan, another Provisional IRA volunteer, who told him two people had been shot from the Presbyterian Church. He had not seen the shootings himself but said the wounded had been taken to a house in Colombcille Court. Mr. Doherty was shocked because he hadn’t heard any shots. Sean Keenan did not mention anything about his confrontation with OIRA 1 and OIRA 2. Mr. Doherty only learnt about this later.
Mr. Doherty said the riot in Little James Street was fairly mediocre and the mood of the crowd did not seem particularly tense. His view was that people would just have got fed up and gone home had the riot been allowed to continue. There were young guys throwing stones and older fellas watching. They weren’t even many stones to throw.
Chamberlain Street
Mr. Doherty said he did not like standing in Little James Street because it was too open and exposed so he moved back up William Street to the junction of Chamberlain Street. When he got there he heard shouts of “they’re coming” and heard the whine of the engines of armoured cars. He instinctively went to run down Chamberlain Street knowing the army would try to cut them off but there was a bottle neck in Chamberlain Street and it was impossible to move quickly at first.
As he ran down Chamberlain Street he looked to his right and saw an armoured car driving south down Rossville Street and another driving onto the waste ground. There was no real panic in Chamberlain Street and as he got towards the end of the street he had slowed down.
Jackie Duddy
As he came out of Chamberlain Street and into the Rossville Flats car park he saw a young lad lying face up with 4 or 5 people around him. He later learnt this was Jackie Duddy. Someone said a woman had been knocked down by an armoured vehicle but from where he was he couldn’t see any army vehicles. He was just inside the car park at the end of Chamberlain Street. People were running and shouting. The sense of panic increased again as people became shocked and confused. People were talking fast, they were excited and agitated but did not seem to be trying to get away.
Gunfire
It was then that he first heard gunfire. A lot of people hit the ground but he ran back into Chamberlain Street. Soldiers then started to come down Chamberlain Street and he moved to the gable wall at the south east end of the street. He could not say how many shots he heard because the sound reverberated off the flats. However the shooting was steady and seemed to be coming from the area of Rossville Street into the car park and down Chamberlain Street. In evidence Mr. Doherty agreed he could not be sure shots were actually coming down Chamberlain Street but he believed 3 or 4 shots had done so.
Michael Bridge
At some point Mr. Doherty said he saw Mickey Bridge who he recognised straight away. His recollection was that Mr. Bridge was closer to the mouth of Chamberlain Street than his position in photograph P0741. Mr. Doherty said he saw Michael Bridge roaring at the soldiers to the north before he flinched and hopped back holding his right thigh. He assumed he had been shot by a soldier he could see at the north end of Block 1 of the Rossville Flats because he was the only one he could see and he was aiming his rifle in Mickey’s direction. Mr. Doherty said he thought the soldier was left handed. With the aid of the Inquiry’s computer virtual reality software Edwin Glasgow, representing many of the military witnesses, suggested it was not possible to see the north end of Block 1 from the end of Chamberlain Street. Mr. Doherty said he was a few feet into the car park and did see the soldier. He agreed with a suggestion from Christopher Clarke QC, counsel to the Inquiry, that it was possible Mickey Bridge was shot by one of the soldiers standing next to the pig out of his sight. He said he never saw Sergeant O’s pig in the mouth of the car park just north of the end of Chamberlain Street.
Mr. Doherty said it was only when he saw Mickey Bridge shot that he realised there army were shooting into the car park.
Father Daly’s Gunman
Although he did not mention it in his first statement Mr. Doherty said he did see the man who has come to be known as Father Daly’s gunman. He said he did not mention seeing a civilian gunman in his first statement because to have done so would have distracted attention from the fact that the Paras had already shot several people and continued to kill people even though they didn’t even see the gunman. However since the Inquiry was aware of the existence of OIRA 4, the gunman, he was now willing to say what he had seen. He had mentioned seeing OIRA 4 in an interview he gave to the Praxis journalists in 1991.
Mr. Doherty accepted certain comments in his first statement to the Inquiry were misleading. He had said he had only heard SLR gunfire but qualified it by saying he could not be sure because he was not a weapons expert. In fact he was familiar with weapons and did hear OIRA 4 fire a revolver.
After he saw Mickey Bridge shot Mr. Doherty saw a man he recognised as a “stick” (i.e. member of the Official IRA) edging along the west gable wall at the south end of Chamberlain Street. He took a revolver from his pocket and fired two or three shots west towards the soldier at the end of Block 1. He then moved back towards Chamberlain Street where he was accosted by members of the crowd. Mr. Doherty said there was a bit of an ‘argy bargy’ and people told him to ‘bugger off.’ However he was trapped like everyone else. The man then came past him to the north east corner of the car park but they did not speak. He did not fire up Chamberlain Street.
At some point Mickey Bridge was carried into the last house on the east side of Chamberlain Street. Mr. Doherty also saw Jackie Duddy carried up Chamberlain Street.
Trapped in the Car Park
Mr. Doherty said there were about 60 of them trapped in the north east corner of the car park. They were there for 10 to 15 minutes. They couldn’t go back up Chamberlain Street because there were soldiers in it and they could not get to the gap between Blocks 2 and 3 of the Rossville Flats because the Paras were firing across the car park. At some point two Paras came to the end of Chamberlain Street and looked at them before retreating.
Whilst in this position Mr. Doherty said he saw a man on either the 5th or 8th floor balcony of Block 2. He made his way west from the walkway joining Blocks 2 and 3. The man appeared to be oblivious to what was going on below and people shouted at him “they’re shooting!” As he got about 20 feet along the balcony he was shot at. His hands went up and he dived for cover.
Patrick Doherty
Everyone in the corner was talking or crying and shots were still being fired. At some point it was decided they had to move and someone shouted “run for it.” Three or four people edged south towards the south east corner of the car park. However as they went out there was an intensive burst of gunfire and the rest jumped back and some one said “Jesus they’re shooting at them!” Mr. Doherty was told subsequently that Patrick Doherty was one of those who went ahead of him in this group.
Three or four minutes later they all moved out, some with their hands on their heads. Someone just said “let’s go, let’s go!” When he looked back Mr. Doherty could still see Paras in Chamberlain Street. He also thinks he saw an armoured vehicle. There was still a soldier at the north east corner of Block 1. As they headed south Mr. Doherty again heard shots. There were about two or three and they sounded as if they were coming from Rossville Street. It was enough to panic everyone and he ran for the steps leading down halfway along Block 3. He ran down the steps and into a doorway at the south east end of Block 2. Some people said they had seen strike marks where bullets had struck the retaining wall of Block 3.
Patrick McDaid
Mr. Doherty said he did not know or see Patrick McDaid who was hit by something, possibly a modified rubber bullet, in the south east corner of the car park.
Patrick Doherty
When he left the doorway and went through the gap between Blocks 2 and 3 he saw Paddy Doherty lying between the north end of Joseph Place and the steps leading up to Fahan Street East. He was on his back. There was another bald guy (Paddy Walsh) lying near him [P0717, P0718] and he crawled towards Paddy Doherty. There was a Knight of Malta administering first aid and then Mr. Walsh and others carried Paddy Doherty to the gap between Blocks 2 and 3 [P0721, P0725]. At the time Mr. Doherty assumed Patrick Doherty had been shot whilst on the other side (north) of Block 2 and run through the gap afterwards.
There was another man, apparently injured, closer to Joseph Place and some people were trying to pull him into the shelter of the flats. Mr. Doherty did not know who this was.
He then walked along Block 2 to the south gable end of Block 1 where the telephone box was. There he saw the bodies of Hugh Gilmore and Bernard McGuigan. He was really stunned by this stage. He knew Hugh Gilmore but not Mr. McGuigan. Someone showed him Bernard McGuigan’s eyelid which was stuck to a wall on Block 2. Someone put it into a matchbox and placed it on his body.
Ambulance
An ambulance arrived on Rossville Street and people started carrying bodies out to it. Father Mulvey was there waving a white handkerchief. As they were about half way to the ambulance shots rang out again and they all hit the ground. The shots came down Rossville Street towards Free Derry Corner.
Injured people were being carried out of houses but he did not recognise any of them. There were still Paras about including one in a garden in Glenfada Park North. There was another leaning on an army vehicle at the rubble barricade. Both were pointing their rifles towards Free Derry Corner.
At no stage did he see or hear any nail bombs or petrol bombs thrown.
He knew nothing about shots being fired by a Provisional IRA volunteer at the city walls from the Bogside Inn after the Paras had withdrawn. If it happened he said it was insignificant. Shots were regularly fired at the city walls.
He left the area and went home to reassure his family he was OK and to find out about those who had been shot. He said the area was quiet and stunned. Everyone remained stunned for days. He did go back to the safe house in the Bogside later in the evening. There his section leader told him there would be no more operations until after the funerals.
Paddy Ward
Mr. Doherty said he had very little dealings with the Fianna and was never a member himself, however he said they would not have had access to weapons or explosives as Paddy Ward has claimed. He said he was involved in training the Fianna about weapons after Bloody Sunday but he did not know if this had been done before. He trained 15 and 16 year olds who were going to join the IRA. He said he had not himself received any training before he joined the IRA in 1971.
He said Paddy Ward’s account of an IRA arsenal of 200 weapons was also wrong. They had very few weapons and the IRA leadership would not have left so many weapons in Derry. Had they been available, and they were not, they would have been deployed where they could be used by other volunteers. He said Paddy Ward’s suggestion of a Fianna nail bombing operation on Bloody Sunday was absolutely ludicrous. There was no way full volunteers would be stood down whilst teenagers were engaged in a bombing operation. In one of his statements Paddy Ward says it was Mr. Doherty who called off the operation, he has subsequently said he called it off himself. Mr. Doherty said he did not know Paddy Ward and did not speak to him on Bloody Sunday. He also said Paddy Ward’s suggestion that he knew the location of all the arms dumps was nonsense. As an IRA volunteer he did not know where the arms were stored so Paddy Ward would not have known. He said he had never seen a nail bomb in a can. Paddy Ward said the IRA usually made nail bombs in cans. Nail bombs were anti personnel weapons and would not be used for attacks on buildings as in the alleged operation Paddy Ward claims to have aborted on Bloody Sunday.
Mr. Doherty said it was the case that the IRA would on occasions attack the army during or after a riot but never during a march. He said the Rossville Flats were not a good location for sniping because they were exposed to the city walls and the Embassy Ballroom. They were also difficult to escape from. He said Sergeant O’s evidence of having come under heavy fire from the Rossville Flats was nonsense. He said suggestions that the IRA ever buried volunteers killed on active service secretly over the border were ludicrous. He was not aware of any Provisional IRA volunteer being shot or injured on Bloody Sunday. He did not see Martin McGuinness on Bloody Sunday.
Praxis Interview
The Inquiry has a note of an interview Mr. Doherty apparently gave to the Praxis team in 1991 [AD0065.0018]. Mr. Doherty said in evidence he could not remember the interview but believed he had spoken to a journalist. He denied telling them he was an IRA volunteer in 1972, he said he would not have told them this. He said the note was also inaccurate in so far as it suggests he was throwing stones in Little James Street after doing so at barrier 14, nor did he see a soldier fire from the hip. He also denied seeing the crowd strike OIRA 4 before he fired. OIRA 4 fired, moved away from the gable wall and there was then some “argy bargy”.
Paul Mahon
Mr. Doherty said he did not recall speaking to a journalist called Paul Mahon in 1998/9. Paul Mahon has recently made a statement saying he was threatened by the Provisional IRA after interviewing people about the shot OIRA 1 fired. Mr. Doherty denied any knowledge of the interview or the alleged threats.
Ann Gallagher
Made Statements to NICRA on 30 January 1972 on tape (Keville tape 1) [AG0001.0008] and on paper [AG0001.0006] and to this Inquiry on 19 June 1999 [AG0001.0001]
Ms. Gallagher was 19 years old on Bloody Sunday. She went on the march with her friends Celine Kirby and Mickey Hone. She said she could not remember getting to the barrier in William Street but she did have a vague recollection of seeing the water cannon. She remembers thinking how big it was. The next thing she remembered was being on the waste ground with her friends. She thinks they went through Macari’s Lane to get there.
Paras Coming In
As she walked south along the waste ground between Eden Place and Pilot Row she heard the crowd behind shouting “they’re coming in” and “they’ve opened up.” People ran south in a panic and they ran with them. Ms. Gallagher ran towards the entrance at the north gable end of Block 1 of the Rossville Flats. She was heading for her aunt’s flat on the first floor (8 Garvan Place).
Gunfire
As she reached the door Ms. Gallagher heard the crack of live gunfire. She heard a single shot come from behind her. She turned to see two soldiers on the waste ground near Pilot Row. One of them was kneeling with his rifle in the aimed position at his shoulder. The other was standing behind him and appeared to be giving him directions. The standing soldier had a wiry moustache.
Ms. Gallagher and her friend Celine crawled up the stairs, they had become separated from Mickey. They were terrified and crawled south along the first floor balcony to her aunt’s flat. All the time there was live fire going on but Ms. Gallagher could not say where it was coming from. She was too frightened to look over into the car park. She banged on the door and her aunt (Eileen Gallagher) answered. There were at least 4 of them in the flat; Ms. Gallagher, her friend Celine and 2 aunts. They were all panicking running from room to room. There may have been others there as well.
Rubble Barricade
Ms. Gallagher said she became more aware of the shooting once she was inside the flat. She felt safer and was more able to think about what was happening. She went to the living room window which overlooks Rossville Street. She saw the rubble barricade to her left and on it she saw three men taking cover. She believes they were alive when she first saw them. They were closer to the Rossville Flats than Glenfada Park. She then saw an older man with the other three. He was waving at the soldiers trying to get help.
Ms. Gallagher said she believed she saw the older man (Alexander Nash) approach the barricade from the Rossville Flats but agreed she may not have seen this. She did not recognise Mr. Nash in a photograph taken when he was behind Block 1 [P0774].
At some point Ms. Gallagher said she saw that the three men on the barricade had been shot. She believed the older man was shot in the leg and referred to there being a lot of blood.
Glenfada Park
Ms. Gallagher saw a soldier at the south east corner of Glenfada Park North, close to the pavement where Glenfada Park opens into Rossville Street. In her 1972 accounts she places him next to a car in the south east corner of Glenfada Park North. She saw this soldier fire and she believed he was the one who shot all four men at the rubble barricade. He was south of the barricade and she thought he had shot them from behind. However she accepted that she did not know what the soldier was firing at and accepted he could have been firing behind Block 2.
She believes she saw the men at the barricade shot. She remembers her aunt being hysterical and screaming “he’s hit, he’s hit!” She thought this was when the older man was hit it the leg (in fact Alexander Nash was hit in the shoulder).
Bodies in Pig
Ms. Gallagher then saw three bodies thrown into an army vehicle that had driven up to the barricade. She said in her statement to the Inquiry that she believed they may have been alive and suffocated in the pig but she had said she thought they were dead in 1972. The soldiers who threw the bodies in were not panicking or taking cover.
Ms. Gallagher’s aunt ran out of the flat and met a priest on the balcony. He went to inquire about the bodies in the pig but soldiers told him there were none. Ms. Gallagher watched from the window as the soldiers shook their heads. The priest returned to the flat to tell Eileen Gallagher she was mistaken and they all screamed telling him the bodies were there. The priest went back to the pig again, this time with a Knight of Malta he must have met, but Ms. Gallagher could not remember seeing what happened then.
When she got home later her father, who was also on the march, told her she should go to the Creggan shops to make a statement which she did. The statement she made was very brief. It was hurried and people were still hysterical.
She did not see any civilians with guns or bombs.
Gerry Campbell
Made Statements to NICRA on 30 January 1972 (Keville Tape 3) [AC0013.0009] and to the Inquiry on 3 October 1999 [AC0013.0001]
Gerry Campbell was 18 on Bloody Sunday. His wife was in hospital at the time with their first child. He went on the march which was the biggest he had ever seen.
Barrier 14
He was near the front of the march and followed the crowd up William Street to the barrier. He couldn’t get up to the barrier because there were too many people. Stewards were at the front trying to keep people back and speaking to the police. He had heard rumours the Paras would be there but he would not have known the difference between them and any other regiment. It was obvious the march was not going to get any further. A few stones were thrown but it wasn’t particularly violent. However tension was mounting and it looked like a riot was about to develop. He did not recall any rubber bullets or CS gas being fired. Before any serious rioting started the army brought up the water cannon and Mr. Campbell was soaked. He decided to go to his uncle’s house at 7 Abbey Park to dry off.
He turned into Chamberlain Street and west into Eden Place. There were thousands of people around as he came out onto the waste ground. There were still people marching but the majority were just standing around. There was no panic or tension. He crossed Rossville Street into Glenfada Park. There were people near the rubble barricade, standing in Rossville Street and sitting on walls. There were families, women and children. There weren’t many people in Glenfada Park as he walked through to Abbey Park. His uncle, William O’Reilly, his wife and children were in the house.
Gunfire
He had been in the house for about 10 minutes when he heard gunfire. This was the first shooting he had heard and it was constant. There were lots of shots, they sounded like single shots from several guns. They made a crack. He thought he heard a hundred or more shots but could not be sure. At first there were a lot, then it died down for a while then more, again followed by a gap.
When he heard the shooting he went to the front door from where he could see people running in all directions. They were coming from Colombcille Court and out of the gap which led back into Glenfada Park North. Some were running down to the Old Bog Road (Fahan Street West). He shouted at people to come into the house and some did. There were lots of people running all over the place.
About 6 or 7 came into the house including Gerald Louge and a couple of women. They were generally older, in their 40s. There was panic. He wanted to go out but people told him not to. There was still sporadic shooting.
James Wray
Mr. Campbell then went inside and continued observing from the kitchen window. From here he could see a man lying in the entrance to Glenfada Park North. He was lying face down with his head towards Mr. Campbell and his feet directly behind. He could only see the man’s head and shoulders. He kept raising his head as if looking for help. Mr. Campbell said he had never forgotten this because he felt he should have been able to do something. He raised his head three times then there was a cloud of dust inches to his right as Mr. Campbell saw him. His body rocked to one side, rising on the left side and then falling. Mr. Campbell assumed he had been hit by a bullet which had ricocheted. The man did not move again.
He then saw soldiers approach from Colombcille Court. There were 4 or 5 in a line moving south. There was a group of people, at least 10, standing by the south gable wall of the west block of Glenfada Park North.
Mr. Campbell was not sure exactly where all the soldiers came from or where they went but having seen some come south from Colombcille Court he remembers seeing two standing in front of the house he was in. In his statement he described one as being on the shallow steps in Abbey Park and another close to him. They had their rifles at the hip and were waving them, gesturing for the people at the gable wall to move north towards Colombcille Court. The crowd started to move, they all had their hands on their heads.
Gerard Donaghy
Mr. Campbell described seeing a young lad run out from the group and around the soldier who was guarding them. He said he seemed to be running in the direction he was told to go but maybe he panicked. He moved in an arc around the soldier. He still had his hands on his head. Mr. Campbell said he could not describe him other than to say he was about his age, 17-18. The soldier he was trying to get around turned and shot him in the chest or stomach. He was only about 6 or 7 feet from the boy. Mr. Campbell said he did not see any smoke from the gun. The lad was knocked backwards to the ground. He was facing away from Mr. Campbell when he was shot.
Gerard McKinney
After the boy was shot a man who had been hiding behind the west side of Glenfada Park South stepped out with his hands in the air. He was shouting “don’t shoot, don’t shoot!” He started to step out over the low garden wall of Glenfada Park South. He was in his 40s and may have been wearing glasses. He was shot as he stepped over the wall and fell forward towards the soldiers. Mr. Campbell said the man did not appear to be wounded because he did not see any blood. He cannot recall seeing him hit the ground and he may have moved away from the window because the soldier, who he believes shot both men, pointed his rifle towards the window. He had fair or red hair and was not wearing a helmet. His eyes were crazy, he was hyped up.
Mr. Campbell feared the soldiers would come into the house and wipe them all out. He took 3 or 4 of the children upstairs and told them to stay down. He then went back to the kitchen window. He had only been away for about 30 seconds. When he looked out again there was a man lying on the shallow steps where he had seen the soldier. He could not be sure whether or not this was the man he had seen climbing over the wall earlier. He did not recognise photographs of Gerard McKinney taken as he lay dying on those steps. He did not recall seeing a Knight of Malta or others around the body. He accepted he could have been wrong about the exact location where he saw the second man shot. The man on the steps appeared to be praying, his lips were moving.
At some point he saw soldiers and civilians running north towards Colombcille Court. The soldiers were shouting at the civilians.
William McKinney
At some point an injured man was brought into the house. Mr. Campbell did not see him come in but saw him in the sitting room. He was lying on the floor with 6 or 7 people around him. Mr. Campbell said he did not think he was dead. He was wearing a shirt and tie and black rimmed glasses. He had blood on one arm. He was in his late 30s or 40s and stocky. A doctor came to the back door. He had been treating a boy in the next house and someone said he had done all he could for him, his stomach was badly shot up. In his tape recorded account in 1972 Mr. Campbell referred to the man in the house being called McKinney and having been shot in the arm and the back.
Sporadic shooting continued throughout.
Willie Breslin
Made Statements to the Inquiry on 30 January 2002 [AB0112.0002] and 24 November 2003 [AB0112.0017]
Mr. Breslin was recalled to deal with the circumstances and contents of an interview he apparently gave to Liam Clarke of the Sunday Times and author of Martin McGuinness - From Guns to Government. He had been on the march and his primary evidence to the Inquiry appears at DAY 194, Week 53, 6 March 2002.
Liam Clarke Interview
Mr. Breslin said he had never spoken to Liam Clarke and that he would not have done so because he worked for the Sunday Times. Mr. Breslin was opposed to Rupert Murdoch’s take over of the Sunday Times and would not have given Mr. Clarke an interview on principle. The Inquiry has a tape of the interview and this has been transcribed [X2.0041.0002]. In his supplemental statement Mr. Breslin said the tape was a forgery. He said the comments attributed to him were his voice but that he had never given the interview. He speculated that the tape could have been compiled from bugging his 2001 interview with Eversheds. Alternatively he said Mr. Clarke might have called him and pretended to be a student thereby obtaining an interview without having disclosed his identity. However the tape begins with Mr. Clarke introducing himself as a Sunday Times journalist and stating he is writing a book about Martin McGuinness. Mr. Breslin said this part of the tape must have been altered because he insisted he would never have knowingly spoken to anyone from the Sunday Times.
Mr. Breslin did say he was extremely busy at the time of the alleged interview being very over worked compiling examination papers. However he refused to concede he could have spoken to Mr. Clarke and simply forgotten. Mr. Breslin also insisted the tape and transcript were inaccurate or contained comments attributed to him that he would not have made. An example he gave was the comment where he is recorded as saying he had never stayed long enough in Derry to have met a group of Loyalists [X2.0041.0042]. He said this was nonsense, he had lived in Derry for 63 years. He also referred to a sentence where he is recorded as saying “You know who the stickies (i.e. Official IRA members) are?” [X2.0041.0014] Mr. Breslin said he knew Liam Clarke was a member of the Official Republican movement (though not the IRA) therefore he would not have needed to ask him this, Mr. Clarke would have known who he was referring to.
Mr. Breslin said the reason why the interview had been fabricated was because he placed Mr. McGuinness at Free Derry Corner on Bloody Sunday when Mr. Clarke and the Ministry of Defence wanted him elsewhere. Mr. Breslin claims he met Mr. McGuinness at Free Derry Corner just after the gunfire started and was invited by Mr. McGuinness to inspect his car to see there were no weapons in it. Mr. McGuinness has denied this. Although Mr. Clarke does make reference to Mr. Breslin’s account in his book Mr. Breslin said it was phrased in such a way as to leave open the possibility that Mr. McGuinness had been elsewhere before they met. Other references to his having seen Mr. McGuinness elsewhere on Bloody Sunday were not included. Mr. Breslin said he was no friend of Mr. McGuinness or his politics.
James McKnight
Made statements on 1 February 1972 [AM01312.0014] and to the Inquiry on 6 November 1998 [AM0312.0007]
Mr. McKnight was only 14 on Bloody Sunday. He lived in the Rossville Flats at the time (15 Donagh Place).
A week before Bloody Sunday, on the Sunday or the Monday, Mr. McKnight said he was in Strains shop at the corner of Little Diamond and Creggan Street when an army officer came in. He was a captain or a major and had a side arm and pips on his shoulder. Mr. McKnight said he did not know which regiment he was from. The officer spoke to him and said what had happened at Magilligan on the Saturday (22 January 1972) had been a bad business and the Paras should not have been brought in. He also said the Paras would be in Derry the next week and there would be trouble.
30 January 1972
On 30 January 1972 Mr. McKnight went out at about 11:00 with two friends to throw stones at soldiers on the south side of William Street just north of Colombcille Court. He was with Brian Doherty and one of his brothers, either Noel or Phillip. There were about 7 or 8 of them in total. There were Saracens in William Street and possibly a canvas lorry. There were very few people about and he went home to have his dinner.
March
After dinner he went out again at about 14:00. He met Hugh Gilmore, Damien McAteer and a man called O’Carrol in the gap between Blocks 1 and 2 of the Rossville Flats. He left them and went to Bishop’s Field were the march was assembling. He went to the front of the march as it came down William Street. At the junction with Rossville Street a man with a loud hailer asked people to go down to Free Derry Corner but there were no soldiers there so he went on down William Street. Some ran ahead of him to get to the army barrier. Hundreds went up William Street but the majority of the march continued down Rossville Street. People shouted at the soldiers and there was some sort of dialogue between those at the front and the soldiers. People started pulling at the barrier and then throwing stones. Mr. McKnight joined in throwing stones.
Barrier 14
The stone throwing had been going on for 10-15 minutes when Mr. McKnight’s father came and found him. He did not recall any CS gas fired at barrier 14 but his father, who had a bad chest, had a handkerchief over his mouth because of gas. He told him to come home but Mr. McKnight said he would follow him. Shortly after this the water cannon was brought up and he decided to leave.
He went down Chamberlain Street and then into Harvey Street. When he was two thirds of the way along Harvey Street he met a woman who he knew. She asked if he was going stone throwing and when he said yes she gave him a bag of about 14 empty milk bottles. He was surprised because she was about 50 and he did not know she was political.
Waterloo Street
When he got to the end of Harvey Street he turned left and threw two bottles at soldiers behind another barrier there. He said he saw a soldier who he believed, because of the colour of his uniform, to be a paratrooper. There was a crowd of people with him and someone shouted “the army’s coming in.” He then ran down Waterloo Street. As he ran he could see down to his left people running on the waste ground and two pigs moving towards the crowd.
As he ran past Butcher’s Gate he saw soldiers at the barrier there. He also saw a solider who he says was a paratrooper trying to scramble over the barrier. Mr. McKnight ran towards him and threw a bottle. The soldier cocked and aimed his rifle at him. He was surprised by the soldier’s reaction and ran into the alleyway opposite leading to the north end of Block 3 of the Rossville Flats. He ran into the flats and stood on the balcony at the north west corner of Block 3.
Block 3
From here he could see a pig parked between Block 1 and the end of Chamberlain Street. There were 4-6 soldiers standing next to it. The nearest one appeared to be firing from the hip. There were 3 or 4 rounds, he heard the crack and saw smoke from the rifle. He was firing towards people fleeing through gap between Blocks 2 and 3. Another of the Paras was also firing. By this time 90% of the people were south of the pig but there were a few stragglers very close to it.
Mr. McKnight says he saw a boy fall and roll over a couple of times. He placed him almost in the middle of the car park. He said he later learnt this was Jackie Duddy. No one stopped and the shooting continued. He then saw someone else fall close to the steps below the centre of Block 3. He was shot. Most people continued running but a few stopped and moved towards the two who had fallen. He said he did not know who the second man was. There were others with him on the balcony including his friend Tom Collins.
He was only on the balcony for about a minute and then went to the 8th floor where his friend lived. Tom Collins went into his flat but Mr. McKnight decided to go home to his own flat in Block 1. From the balcony on the 8th floor he saw people huddled around the 2 bodies in the car park. He also saw 2 soldiers at the south gable end of Chamberlain Street, one on each side of the street. However it may have been later that he saw this.
Block 2
There was a lull in the shooting and Mr. McKnight made his way along the higher of the 2 walkways joining Blocks 2 and 3. As he did so the shooting started again and he lay down on the floor of the walkway near to Block 2. There were about a dozen other people there, mostly men. It seemed as though he was there for 15 minutes. The shooting was heavy, rapid, single shots. It seemed to be coming from three different directions; the car park, the waste ground to the north and from behind Block 3. It was only later that he assumed some of the gunfire was coming from the city walls.
During a lull he looked out of the window south towards Joseph Place. Below he could see the body of a man lying close to the east end of Block 2. A Knight of Malta in a grey uniform was tending him to. The man’s head was pointing towards Free Derry Corner. Mr. McKnight said he subsequently learnt this was Patrick Doherty. He was the only one of his group who looked up and as the shooting began again someone told him to “get the fuck down.” As he crouched down he heard a thud of a bullet hitting the concrete above his head. He only heard the impact, he did not see the strike. He was almost certain the bullet hit the south west side of the walkway which is why he later assumed there was fire from the city walls.
When the shooting died down again he got up and made his way along the 8th floor balcony of Block 2 towards Block 1. There were definitely two soldiers at the end of Chamberlain Street at this time, one at each gable end. As he walked one of them tracked him with his rifle so he walked with his hands in the air. He went through the walkway to Block 1 and into his flat which was also on the 8th floor.
When he got into the flat his father had just been sick in the toilet because of what he had seen on the rubble barricade. Mr. McKnight said he did not know if his father had actually seen anyone shot but he said there were 3 or 4 people lying on the barricade. There was then another very heavy burst of fire.
Errors in Draft Statement
Mr. McKnight said some of the comments attributed to him by Eversheds at this point were incorrect. He denied that he ever said there was a gun battle between the army and the IRA or that he had heard different calibre weapons. He had said the firing was so intense it was like a gun battle. He said there was echoing all around but denied saying there was low velocity gunfire from Lisfannon Park. He did say there may have been different calibre shots.
Bernard McGuigan
He went out at about 18:00 and was told Hugh Gilmore had been killed. He saw the Civil Rights banner covering the blood stain where Bernard McGuigan had died. He also saw a window riddled with bullets on the third floor of Block 1, Lily McCrudden’s house.
On 1 February 1972 Mr. McKnight made a statement to a teacher, Kevin O’Kane, at St. Eugene’s School. He never saw it after it was taken. The statement was brief and taken very quickly. There was a queue of people waiting to give statements. He said this may have been why his original statement did not refer to him having seen a soldier fire but he did not know.
Damien Doyle
Damien Doyle has made a statement to the Inquiry in which he says he was with Mr. McKnight on Bloody Sunday [AD0138.0004]. However Mr. McKnight said he did not remember being with him and he certainly was not in Abbey Street or Cable Street as Mr. Doyle suggests. He must have confused him with someone else.
Convictions
Mr. McKnight was subsequently convicted of a number of para military offences. He admitted that he had joined the IRA in August 1973 when he was still 15. He said he was never in the Fianna. On 22 March 1977 he was convicted of membership of the IRA and sentenced to 5 years imprisonment. On the same date he was also convicted of possessing firearms during 1974 and sentenced to 3½ years.
Alexander McFadden
Made Statements in 1972 [AM0209.0008] and to this Inquiry on 23 November 1998 [AM0209.0001]
Mr. McFadden was 35 on Bloody Sunday and lived on the 8th floor of the Rossville Flats. He joined the march at the beginning with his friend Liam Mooney. He went to the barrier in William Street but left as soon as the army started firing rubber bullets. There were kids throwing stones.
He ran south down Chamberlain Street by which time the rest of the crowd had started running. He stopped on the corner of Harvey Street. He heard live shots and pigs revving. People were squealing and trying to get into the 720 Bar. He ran on down Chamberlain Street and stopped at the gable end of the west side of the street. He saw two pigs in Rossville Street. He saw 2-4 soldiers jump out of each vehicle. They ran to the north end of Block 1. There were others leaning over the bonnet of another pig which was closer to his position. The soldiers started shooting across the car park towards the gap between Blocks 2 and 3. He heard glass shattering.
Soon after this he heard an officer shout an order not to shoot “until you have a target.” He took this as a cue to try and get away so he ran towards the gap between Blocks 1 and 2. There were around a dozen in his group all running towards the gap. Hugh Gilmore, who he knew, was slightly ahead of him. As he ran Hugh Gilmore said “I’m hit”. Mr. McFadden thought he was hit by a rubber bullet. However Hugh Gilmore was shot dead in Rossville Street, on the other side of Block 1.
As he got towards the gap people started coming out into the car park, they said the army was at the front of the flats. He therefore ran across the car park towards Block 3. The soldiers started shooting across the car park again and everyone was in a panic. He says he saw 4-5 soldiers firing from the corner of Block 1 and the pig. He saw smoke from the rifles. He tried to shelter at a wall in front of Block 3. There were about a dozen of them there.
Then a soldier shouted “don’t move” and they were told to put their hands on their heads by soldiers who had moved up from Chamberlain Street. There was also a pig there. There were ordered to move with their hands on their heads through the gap between Blocks 2 and 3. The shooting had stopped by this point.
He then walked along the south side of Block 2 and came across the bodies of Bernard McGuigan and Hugh Gilmore. Mr. McFadden is pictured in a number of photographs standing over Hugh Gilmore’s body [P0442, P0448]. He felt panicky and started shaking when he saw the bodies. He made his way up the stairs of Block 1 to go home. Before he got to the second floor he saw someone who could have been 40 or 50 lying on the steps. There was blood running down the steps. There were people with the injured person. He did not see any injury and did not know if the person was dead or alive.
When he got to his flat he was alone. He looked out onto Rossville Street to see two bodies thrown into a pig. Then there was more shooting and he ducked away. When he went back to the window he saw people being marched from Kells Walk towards William Street. One of them was an elderly friend of his James McShane. He looked back at the rubble barricade and heard an English voice say “pull out now”. He looked out the other side of the flat into the car park and there was still some shooting going on. People in the gap between Blocks 2 and 3 were coming into the car park shouting that there was shooting from the city walls.
Later he went to see his friend Liam Mooney who had been hit in the face by a rubber bullet.
At no stage did he see any civilians with guns or bombs. He made a very brief statement to NICRA in 1972. In it he refers to Hugh Gilmore saying he was hit and to a soldier opening fire with a sub-machine gun. In evidence he said this was one of the soldiers at the north end of Block 1. He also gave an account of what he had seen to a journalist from Praxis in 1991 [AM0209.0009].
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