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29 - 30 OCTOBER 2003
Evidence heard
This week the Inquiry heard from the following witnesses:
Kathryn Johnston, Liam Clarke, Muriel Barr, Hugh Leo Young, Patrick McGlinchey and Myles O’Hagan.
Summary of Evidence
Wednesday 29 October 2003 Kathryn Johnston, Liam Clarke
Thursday 30 October 2003 Muriel Barr, Hugh Leo Young, Patrick McGlinchey, Myles O’Hagan
A full transcript of the proceedings is available at http://www.bloody-sunday-inquiry.org.uk.
Numbers in square brackets refer to the code given to a particular document by the Inquiry.
INTRODUCTION
The Inquiry resumed hearing evidence in Derry on 29 October 2003 having sat in London to hear military witnesses. Liam Clarke and Kathryn Johnston co-wrote a biography of Martin McGuinness called From Guns to Government. The book contains a number of allegations concerning military action on Bloody Sunday by the IRA and specifically Martin McGuinness. Leo Young was on the march and he helped Joe Friel and Gerard Donaghy into houses after they were shot. He was arrested whilst trying to get Gerard Donaghy to hospital when the car they were in was stopped by the army in Barrack Street. Leo Young’s brother John Young was shot dead at the rubble barricade. Patrick McGlinchey and Myles O’Hagan were both young teenagers on Bloody Sunday. Both later joined the IRA.
Kathryn Johnston
Journalist and co-author Martin McGuinness - From Guns to Government
Made four Statements to this Inquiry dated 30 May 2003 [M0111.0001], 6 October 2003 [M0111.0056], 13 October 2003 [M0111.0091] and 27 October 2003 [M0111.0092]
Liam Clarke
Northern Ireland Editor, Sunday Times and co-author Martin McGuinness - From Guns to Government
Made four Statements to this Inquiry dated 13 May 2003 [M0112.0001], 6 October 2003 [M0112.0009], 13 October 2003 [M0112.0010] and 27 October 2003 [M0112.0081]
For the sake of clarity and to avoid repetition Ms. Johnston and Mr. Clarke’s evidence is reported together.
Kathryn Johnston and Liam Clarke are married. Together they wrote a book called Martin McGuinness - From Guns to Government, published by Mainstream Publishing in 2001. The book purports to be a biography of Martin McGuinness and one chapter deals with the events of Bloody Sunday. The book is based largely on interviews with sources including many whose identities are withheld. These include those given the pseudonyms Peter Doherty, Des Clinton, Chick Donnelly, John Joe McCann and Martin Ingram. In addition to these anonymous sources Paddy Ward and Liam O’Comain (their real names) also provided information concerning Bloody Sunday. Paddy Ward has recently given evidence to the Inquiry (BIRW Weekly Report 105). Martin Ingram gave evidence in week 91.
Martin McGuinness refused to cooperate with Ms. Johnston and Mr. Clarke believing the book to be biased and politically motivated. However Ms. Johnston had interviewed Mr. McGuinness in 1991 and in early 1992 for a project during her Media Studies degree at Coleraine University. Some of the quotes in the book are drawn from these interviews.
Sunday Times
Mr. Clarke is the Northern Ireland editor of the Sunday Times newspaper. He has been on the staff of the Sunday Times since 1988 and was freelancing before then. He said that the original idea for the book followed a conversation he had with the publisher, Mr. Bill Campbell, about another matter in September 2000. It was the first time they had spoken. Mr. Campbell had rung him to ask his opinion on a book proposed by another author. Mr. Campbell then asked Mr. Clarke if he might consider writing a book and after discussing the matter with Ms. Johnston they agreed on a biography of Martin McGuinness. Mr. Campbell has recently made a statement to the Inquiry [M0113.0001].
Unidentified Sources
Both Ms. Johnston and Mr. Clarke refused to name sources who had spoken to them on the understanding that their true identities would not be divulged. Ms. Johnston said the sources feared their lives were in danger if they were named but she said she had asked them to give evidence to the Inquiry. With the exceptions of Paddy Ward and ‘Martin Ingram’ they have refused to speak to the Inquiry. When questioned by the Inquiry Ms. Johnston repeatedly refused to answer questions claiming that doing so might identify her sources. Liam Clarke accused the Inquiry of “improper pressure” in seeking the identities of sources. He even cited the case of Dr. David Kelly, the biological weapons expert who apparently committed suicide after his name was revealed as the source of a BBC story on the Iraq war. He claimed the psychological pressure faced by Dr. Kelly was less than that which the Inquiry was attempting to place on his sources.
Paddy Ward
Ms. Johnston said Paddy Ward did not seek any undertakings regarding confidentiality. He now lives outside Ireland and therefore had no fears for his safety. However he was screened when he gave evidence to the Inquiry last week. He claims to have been in charge of the Fianna (youth IRA) on Bloody Sunday. Liam Clarke interviewed him for the book. Mr. Clarke said he first met Paddy Ward in November 2000 when they were both consulted by Times Newspapers in connection with a legal case. Mr. Clarke said the case did not directly involve him but the two of them decided to meet and Mr. Ward mentioned his own plans for a book. They stayed in contact and in April 2001 Mr. Clarke interviewed Mr. Ward for From Guns to Government.
When he gave evidence to the Inquiry Paddy Ward disputed a number of matters attributed to him by Liam Clarke. Mr. Clarke has disclosed a tape of his interview with Mr. Ward and this has been transcribed by the Inquiry. The tape largely confirms Mr. Clarke’s account of the interview however neither Ms. Johnston nor Mr. Clarke would say Mr. Ward’s subsequent retractions led them to doubt his credibility. When he gave evidence to the Inquiry Mr. Ward changed his account of his own actions before and during Bloody Sunday placing himself in an even more prominent role than is described in the book. He now claims to have personally made the nail bombs he claims were distributed by Martin McGuinness. He also claims to have selected targets to be bombed in the Guildhall Square and that it was he and not Gerry ‘Mad Dog’ Doherty who called off the nail bombing operation. Despite all the contradictions and alterations in his accounts both Ms. Johnston and Mr. Clarke said they still considered him a reliable source. In the preface to the second (paperback) edition of the book Mr. McGuinness is said to have called off the nail bomb operation. At no stage has Paddy Ward said this and when asked about it by Christopher Clarke QC Ms. Johnston said she and her husband “deduced” it was Mr. McGuinness.
Liam Clarke insisted that Paddy Ward was credible and although his accounts did vary he said he did not consider them to be completely different. He denied failing to include evidence which contradicted Paddy Ward’s account but accepted he should have read the account of Fianna activist Gerry Doherty’s death in Lost Lives (a book detailing the circumstances of all those killed during the Troubles). Paddy Ward claims Gerry Doherty was killed during a Fianna (Provo) raid on an Official IRA arms dump ordered by Martin McGuinness. However Lost Lives records the death as resulting from an internal dispute within the Officials. Mr. Clarke had consulted Lost Lives during his interview with Paddy Ward but said he was just checking dates and did not read the brief passage [T494].
Paddy Ward also claims to have witnessed several of the shootings on Bloody Sunday. Specifically he says he saw an army Major at Aggro Corner shoot Damien Donaghy and John Johnston with a pistol. This completely contradicts all the evidence concerning the first shootings (both were shot from a derelict building in William Street by members of the machine gun platoon) and there is no evidence of any Major firing at Aggro Corner. Liam Clarke denied that the reason he had failed to check the accuracy of Paddy Ward’s account was because he had so much invested in him as a source he dared not examine what had really happened. He claimed he did not have the resources available to the Inquiry and that no one else had pointed out this error since publication of the book.
Christopher Clarke QC, counsel to the Inquiry, asked Ms. Johnston why the notes she has disclosed of her interview with Martin McGuinness in December 1991 [M0111.0040] appear to be in the same typescript as the summary of Paddy Ward’s interview in April 2001 [M0111.0022]. Ms. Johnston said she retyped the notes of the Martin McGuinness interview whilst preparing the book.
‘Des Clinton’
Ms. Johnston and Mr. Clarke both interviewed the source referred to as Des Clinton in a long meeting which followed a telephone conversation. He insisted on an undertaking of confidentiality and anonymity before he would speak to them. Des Clinton has refused to speak to the Inquiry.
Ms. Johnston said she did not know why she did not have any of her shorthand notes of the interview with Des Clinton. All that has been disclosed is a typed summary [M0111.0020]. She refused to say why she had approached him. She said she did not believe he had any connection with the IRA. However in the book (page 59)[T0488] he is described as “an IRA sympathiser” and in her own statement [M0111.0066] she describes him “a Republican, or former Republican.”
Des Clinton was one of the sources for the allegation that Martin McGuinness and others tried to plant a bomb in Duffy’s bookmakers on Bloody Sunday. Des Clinton also claims to have been next to Jackie Duddy when he was shot in the Rossville Flats car park and to have witnessed Michael Bridge being shot. He also refers to speaking to Patrick Doherty before he was shot although this may have been some days before Bloody Sunday.
‘Peter Doherty’
Peter Doherty also insisted on his identity being kept secret. He was interviewed on a number of occasions by both Ms. Johnston and Mr. Clarke. Peter Doherty has refused to speak to the Inquiry. He claims to have been in the IRA but was not present on Bloody Sunday. Ms. Johnston refused to say whether or not Peter Doherty was active in the IRA in 1972 or if he was one of the people who had given evidence to the Inquiry. In the book [T0487] Peter Doherty is quoted as the source for the claim that Martin McGuinness secretly planned to attack the army on Bloody Sunday after the alleged nail bomb operation led by Paddy Ward.
‘John Joe McCann’
John Joe McCann also insisted on anonymity and has refused to speak to the Inquiry. He was interviewed by both Ms. Johnston and Mr. Clarke.
Liam O’Comain
Liam O’Comain did not ask to remain anonymous. This is his real name. Ms. Johnston said she believed he was writing his own memoirs and parts of these have appeared on a website. Mr. O’Comain says he joined the IRA in 1955, long before Martin McGuinness. He has now made a statement to the Inquiry. In his interview with Liam Clarke [AO0082.0005] he claims members of the Official IRA had decided to take military action on Bloody Sunday but also admits to having been only on the fringes of the organisation. Liam Clarke did not ask him who within the Officials he was referring to, whether or not the decision was authorised by the leadership, what action they proposed to take or indeed what action they did take. Kevin O’Donovan, representing a number of former Official IRA members, put it to Mr. Clarke that his failure to pursue any of these matters suggested he did not give much weight to Mr. O’Comain’s claim. Mr. Clarke said the book was not about Bloody Sunday or the Official IRA. He just reported what he was told and did not bother to check the details.
Other Sources
Ms. Johnston and Mr. Clarke also say they spoke to other sources within the Fianna, other than Paddy Ward and John Joe McCann, but refused to identify who they were or even say how many they spoke to. They claim these verify Paddy Ward’s claim to have been a member of the Fianna in 1972.
In addition to IRA sources Ms. Johnston and Mr. Clarke also claim to have spoken to unidentified police sources and been told about the contents of intelligence files on Martin McGuinness. Again they refused to elaborate on this matter.
Ms. Johnston said she gleaned information about Bloody Sunday from the Inquiry’s website and others informed her about evidence given to the Inquiry.
Disclosure of Documents
Ms. Johnston and Mr. Clarke were served subpoena’s requiring them to produce to the Inquiry all documents they had which may be of relevance to the Inquiry’s attempts to determine the truth of what occurred on Bloody Sunday. They declined a suggestion that they allow their own counsel, Andrew Nicol QC, to determine what should or should not be disclosed. Liam Clarke claimed a comprehensive search of all their material was not feasible.
Errors
On matters where they would comment Ms. Johnston and Mr. Clarke accepted there were a number of errors in the book. Ms. Johnston admitted that the reference to the Conservative government backing General Ford’s ‘new policy’ towards the Derry rioters (to shoot selected ring leaders) was out of context and an error. She also accepted the reference to General Ford briefing Edward Heath was wrong. She claimed the errors arose from editing 15,000 words from the book prior to publication.
Ms. Johnston also accepted she had no source for her contention that Chief Superintendent Frank Lagan trusted march organiser Ivan Cooper. She never interviewed either man and refused to comment further.
The book also inaccurately describes Paddy Ward as being 17 on Bloody Sunday. He was in fact only16. Liam Clarke denied he had inflated Mr. Ward’s age to give greater credibility to his claim to have been in command of the Fianna on Bloody Sunday and to have led an aborted nail bombing operation.
Ms. Johnston accepted her reference to Father Daly and the crowd being pursued by C Company of 1 Para may be wrong, it could have been Support Company.
Liam Clarke accepted Mr. McGuinness was not related to the Bishop of Nottingham as alleged in the first edition of the book. He discovered this when he checked with the bishop after publication. He denied this was indicative of his failure to check facts asserted in the book.
Motivation
Both Ms. Johnston and Mr. Clarke denied any political motivation for writing the book or any bias against Martin McGuinness. Both are former members of the Republican Clubs/Workers’ Party which were associated with the Official IRA. However they both denied any involvement in or sympathy for the use of political violence. Ms. Johnston said she joined the Workers’ Party in 1976. Mr. Clarke said he was a member of the Republican Clubs until 1981 when he became a fulltime journalist working for the Sunday News. He had joined in 1973 during his first year at university having previously been involved in the Civil Rights movement at school. Before writing for the Sunday News he wrote for the Northern People which was an organ for the Republican Clubs. Ms. Johnston and Mr. Clarke both denied the book was politically motivated by hostility to Mr. McGuinness or his politics.
Barra McGrory, representing Mr. McGuinness, put it to Mr. Clarke that, “at best your book is inadequate, ill-researched and a wholly unreliable account of Mr McGuinness's life and at worst, Mr Clarke, you have abused your situation as a journalist to satisfy your own deep and long-standing animosity towards Mr McGuinness and his politics.”
British Intelligence
Liam Clarke denied being a vehicle for British intelligence and said he would sue if anyone said so outside court. He claimed the only MI6 officer (the British Secret Intelligence Service) he had met was Michael Oatley, and he sang Mr. McGuinness’ praises. Mr. Clarke claimed Mr. McGuinness knew he was not linked to British intelligence and described such claims as “sinister.” He also said he had received silent phone calls since the hearing on 6 October 2003, in London, dealing with the disclosure of documents.
Martin McGuinness
In the book Ms. Johnston and Mr. Clarke claim Martin McGuinness was in command of the IRA in Derry on Bloody Sunday because the officer commanding (OC) was exhausted and left Mr. McGuinness in charge. Ms. Johnston refused to elaborate on this or her assertion that the OC was furious with Mr. McGuinness. She also refused to name the OC even secretly to the Inquiry.
Ms. Johnston refused to comment on her source for claiming, “after the shooting McGuinness stayed in the Free Derry Corner area, waiting for more men and weapons to arrive from the Creggan.”
She also refused to comment on her assertion that “both wings of the IRA were preparing to take authorised action against the army” [T0491].
Nail Bombs
Ms. Johnston and Mr. Clarke also allege Mr. McGuinness handed Paddy Ward and seven other Fianna members, including Gerard Donaghy, a total of 16 nail bombs at lunch time on Bloody Sunday. Ms. Johnston refused to comment further on this other than to say the information came from Paddy Ward.
The preface to the second edition the book contains a further allegation that Gerard Donaghy refused to hand over nail bombs to Sean McCallion who wanted to throw them over houses in High Street and into William Street. Ms. Johnston’s notes [M0111.0051] refer to Father Daly and Martin McGuinness being present when McCallion argued with Donaghy however the reference to Father Daly was omitted from the book. Ms. Johnston could not explain why this was but denied it was because she knew the whole story was untrue. Father Daly denies being in High Street. Arthur Harvey QC put it to Ms. Johnston that the houses on both High Street and William Street were three stories high with a gap between. It was therefore absurd to suggest anyone could have thrown a nail bomb into William Street from High Street.
Ms. Johnston said she understood Gerard Donaghy’s family being upset by the allegations she had reported about Mr. Donaghy. She denied Paddy Ward had been completely discredited when he gave evidence to the Inquiry. She claimed she and her husband believed Paddy Ward’s account, including the alleged nail bombing operation involving Gerard Donaghy. She said she never considered whether he might have been telling a tissue of lies. She claimed she still believed Paddy Ward’s account. She agreed it was not fair that the families be denied the opportunity to test allegations in the book by other unidentified sources who have refused to give evidence to the Inquiry. She agreed she would asked them again to come forward.
Tissue of Lies
Both Ms. Johnston and Mr. Clarke denied the book was intended to discredit Martin McGuinness. Although both claimed their objective was to get at the truth they were unable to explain their editorial approach. Arthur Harvey QC asked Ms. Johnston if she was just reporting a jumble of allegations or presenting the results of their investigations as their belief of what was true. Ms. Johnston denied the book was either.
Father Daly
There is reference in the book to Father Daly seeing youths acting suspiciously on Bloody Sunday. Immediately after this there is a sentence asserting that Martin McGuinness was one of the youths. Father Daly has never referred to seeing Mr. McGuinness amongst the group. When questioned by Barra McGrory Ms. Johnston denied the book implied that he had. She claimed Des Clinton and other sources said Mr. McGuinness was part of the group but refused to comment further.
Duffy’s Bookmakers
The book contains a detailed account of an alleged attempt by Mr. McGuinness and others to plant a bomb in Duffy’s bookmakers on Chamberlain Street/William Street. Ms. Johnston claims to have a number of sources for this story. Des Clinton is asserted to be one of the sources for this information but again Ms. Johnston refused to identify others.
The account in the first edition of the book is of Mr. McGuinness and others kicking in the door to the bookmakers “as the firing intensified” and preparing to plant a bomb before hurriedly abandoning the idea. However in her statement to this Inquiry Ms. Johnston claimed to have received further information from a new source (again unidentified), after publication of the book, to the effect that Mr. McGuinness had a key to the bookmakers. She continued, “I will not elaborate further. I am not prepared to identify my sources but there are more than one and the sources may wish to claim anonymity.” She first made the claim that Mr. McGuinness had a key to the bookmakers in a television interview on Channel 4 broadcast in January 2002 (after screening of the Jimmy McGovern Sunday film).
In evidence she claimed Mr. McGuinness had a key but broke down the door anyway so as not to reveal the fact that he did have a key. She also claimed to have recently received further information, from yet another unidentified source, that the door was made of steel. This source claimed Mr. McGuinness fired a Thompson sub machine gun at the door from inside the building at members of the crowd who were trying to escape the army by getting into the bookmakers. It is alleged Mr. McGuinness believed the army were trying to break in. Ms. Johnston could not explain the contradictions between the various accounts, how Mr. McGuinness and others broke down a steel door, or why Mr. McGuinness would fire at a steel door risking bullets ricocheting back.
“Good Evidence”
At the end of her first statement Ms. Johnston refers to having “good evidence that McGuinness tried to attack the army on several occasions, e.g. the incident at the bookmakers and the one shot that was heard at the time.” This is mentioned in support of the claim that after Mr. McGuinness agreed to give evidence to the Inquiry (he denies any involvement in military action on Bloody Sunday) former senior IRA figures were warned not give evidence themselves. Ms. Johnston and Mr. Clarke claim Mr. McGuinness’ brother Willie McGuinness and Raymond McCartney visited people to dissuade them from giving evidence. Liam Clarke said Willie McGuinness and Raymond McCartney were the individuals he was referring to in his article in Sunday Times News Review on 6 May 2001[KM0003.0077]. There he said the visits were “the next best thing to sending round the grim reaper.” He claimed he did not know whether the alleged intimidation was intended just to ensure only Mr. McGuinness gave evidence or to ensure a false account by him was not contradicted.
Muriel Barr
Made Statement to the Inquiry on 8 February 1999 [AB0018.0001]
On 30 January 1972 Muriel Barr lived in the Creggan with her husband Hugh and their two children. They all went on the march. They saw soldiers hiding behind a hedges in the front of the old Prep School (now part of Magee College) on Northland Road before they got to the march. Mrs. Barr’s husband told one of them to get out of the gardens. The soldier had a Middlesborough accent and was wearing a beret. There were more soldiers outside the fire station on Northland Road. In another exchange one of the soldiers said to her husband “I hope you’ve made a will.” The soldiers did not look like the Royal Anglians she was used to seeing.
They got to the assembly point and joined the march behind the band about 150 yards behind the lorry. People were carrying placards with names of people who were interned. People were singing and chatting. It was very jovial. She remembers the noise of helicopters and thought there might have been as many as four hovering over the march. The march halted at the junction of William Street and Little James Street. The lorry had turned down Rossville Street and Mrs. Barr could here someone on the loud hailer calling for people to come down to Free Derry Corner. Her husband said “We’re not going to listen to that twit Lord Brockway spouting about things he knows nothing about” so they continued along William Street to see what was happening.
Barrier 14
Mrs. Barr was next to Quinn’s fish shop close to barrier 14. They was a lot of banter between the crowd and the soldiers on the barrier and then a few youngsters started to throw stones. The soldiers on the barrier were young and looked frightened. Mrs. Barr wanted to move away but her husband said they should stay a while.
They took cover at the fish shop when the water cannon was used and then the army fired CS gas into the crowd. This made her ill and she and her husband moved away down William Street towards Rossville Street. They stopped on the waste ground behind the backs of the houses on William Street and were there when the Paras drove into the Bogside. Her son was still with her but she could not see her daughter. She called to her and heard her reply. Bernadette Devlin was speaking on the loud hailer at Free Derry Corner.
Paras Coming In
She saw army vehicles drive onto the waste ground, throwing up rubble and dust. They made an awful noise. Her husband shouted to run towards the Rossville Flats. She just ran. She hit the wire fence south of Pilot Row and someone pushed her through it. She turned to see soldiers with rifles jump out of two or three army vehicles which had driven onto the waste ground. She heard the crack of gunfire and saw two of the soldiers in firing positions. She did not see them fire. The soldiers she saw were kneeling on the waste ground aiming towards the north end of Block 1 of the Rossville Flats and across Rossville Street. The noise was incredible: gunfire, bullets whizzing, shouting, screaming. She made her way south along the east side of Block 1 intending to get away through the gap between Blocks 1 and 2. She was following a man she knew called Declan Doherty. He then veered off to the left and went along Block 2, she followed and ended up at the south east corner of the car park. She paused there and her husband caught up with her. She could hear soldiers shouting to each other behind her but she did not look back.
They were behind about four people and she was waiting for them to move into the gap between Blocks 2 and 3. Someone told her to get down and she did. They had to crawl along on their stomachs because live rounds were whizzing over them. She felt relived when she eventually got into the gap. From there she could see people on the east side of Joseph Place. Someone said they were shooting from the city walls but she could not tell where the gunfire was coming from.
Patrick Doherty
Once she got through the gap between Blocks 2 and 3 she saw a man who she subsequently learnt to be Patrick Doherty. He was out on his own, crawling across the area between Block 2 and Joseph Place. When shown a photograph of Patrick Doherty crawling near Block 3 she recognised him as the man she had seen. She remembered the distinctive shape of his hair and forehead. She did not know him at the time.
Mrs. Barr was lying prone because bullets were still whizzing over head. She saw Patrick Doherty crawling from left to right in front of her. He was behind Block 2 between Joseph Place and the steps leading up to Fahan Street East. He was side on to her with his feet towards her. He had a handkerchief over his face and he looked pale. As he crawled she heard 2 shots in quick succession. She could not tell where the shots came from. Patrick Doherty had nothing in his hands. She did not know if the first shot had hit him but the second definitely did. His backside went up in the air and he then slumped down. People were shouting at him to keep his head down. She relayed the scene to those behind her. She was in shock.
Joseph Place
The people at Joseph Place called for her to come to them. She was frightened but felt she had to do as they said. She crawled across to Joseph Place. Even though she must have crawled past Patrick Doherty she said she had no memory of doing so. She said she was in shock and just moved. The small group at Joseph Place pulled her to her feet. They were all shaking and trembling. Declan Doherty was there and she asked him if he had seen her children. He had not but she found her son in a garden in Joseph Place. Her husband then joined her and they started to look for their daughter. They did not know the area and Declan said for them to go south under the protection of Joseph Place.
Glenfada Park North
She and her husband then moved back north, crossing Rossville Street and entering a courtyard (Glenfada Park North). She did not know Glenfada Park at the time but recognised the courtyard when she returned to it with solicitors acting for the Inquiry. She was looking for her daughter. She has a memory of seeing three bodies on the ground, when shown a photograph of the bodies of James Wray, William McKinney and Joe Mahon lying in Glenfada Park North [P0680] Mrs. Barr said it was similar to the scene she saw but there were more people around when she was there. She found her daughter in the courtyard. She was hysterical at having seen the bodies. Mrs Barr said she felt immune having already seen Patrick Doherty shot.
She could not remember much that happened after that. They just wandered around. She recalled her husband speaking to police officers on Clarendon Street. He said they had better find the people who had committed the murders but they just replied by saying it would not have happened if they had not been there. They went to Mass at St. Eugene’s Cathedral and her husband insisted the priest refer to the dead as having been murdered rather than killed.
Later someone came to her door and asked if she would deliver a parcel to the Nash family. The young man said he had just visited Longkesh and was told she might deliver the parcel for him. It was a carved wooded Celtic cross. Mrs. Barr did not know the Nashs but had previously offered to be a prison visitor for people interned in Longkesh. She and her husband found the Nash house but the girl who answered the door made no attempt to take the parcel so she left it on the doorstep. She was unaware at the time that William Nash had been killed.
Hugh Leo Young
Brother of John Young (Killed at the Rubble Barricade)
Made Statements to the Royal Ulster Constabulary [ED0047.0007], the Widgery Tribunal [AY0001.0009] and to this Inquiry [AY0001.0001]
Hugh Leo Young was 26 years old on Bloody Sunday. He is known by his middle name Leo. He had just got married. His younger brother John was only 17 at the time. He was shot dead at the rubble barricade. Another brother Patrick was also on the march. Leo had not been on a civil rights march before but everyone was going so he made the spontaneous decision to go along.
John Young used to go around with Jim Doherty who was himself a friend of Joe McGlinchey. Joe’s father Thomas drove the coal lorry at the front of the march and for this reason Leo presumed his brother John was at the front of the march when it was in William Street. Hugh was further back with his other brother Patrick. There were thousands of people and he remembered thinking that many people could not be wrong.
Stevenson’s Bakery
Mr. Young said he saw soldiers in a derelict building on William Street. He said this was at Stevenson’s Bakery. The soldiers were not right at the front of the building but towards the back. He could see them over a brick wall. They were at ground level. They were wearing berets and their faces were blacked up.
When he became aware that there was trouble at the front of the march Hugh went to look for his younger brother John to make sure he was OK. His perception at the time was that there was a riot going on ahead of him. His memory is of turning right off William Street and going through Colombcille Court. In some of his 1972 accounts, that he gave in his Widgery statement and to a Sunday Times journalist Peter Pringle, Mr. Young appears to suggest he went first to the army barrier at the end of William Street. However he does not recall the interview with Peter Pringle [notes at AY0001.0026] and does not remember going up William Street beyond Stevenson’s Bakery.
Joe Friel
Whilst in Colombcille Court he heard 2 to 3 gunshots. He had forgotten about these when he gave his statement to this Inquiry. Mr. Young made his way south through Glenfada Park to the Old Bog Road (Fahan Street West). It was hear that he saw a young man who had been shot in the chest. He later learnt the man’s name was Joe Friel. Mr. Young said Joe Friel staggered out of Glenfada Park South through the small alleyway leading out onto the Old Bog Road. Mr. Young saw him leaning on the corner of a low brick wall and, with others, he helped him into a house in Lisfannon Park.
Joe Friel’s evidence appears to suggest he made his way out of Glenfada Park North towards Abbey Park before moving south to Lisfannon Park. The map apparently marked by Peter Pringle after speaking to Leo Young records his meeting Joe Friel at the south west corner of Glenfada Park North. This coincides with the evidence Mr. Young gave to Lord Widgery [AY0001.0031] where he said he was shot at as he passed the same opening at which he had met Joe Friel. However Mr. Young is now sure he met Joe Friel at the south west corner of Glenfada Park South.
A Knight of Malta, Evelyn Lafferty, came into the house and tended to Joe Friel. It was only when she opened his shirt and he saw a wound to his chest that Mr. Young realised he had been shot.
Gerard Donaghy
His attention was then drawn to a body lying between Glenfada Park North and Abbey Park. He crossed the Old Bog Road and ran north up the wide alleyway between Glenfada Park and Abbey Park. He was to the left on the slightly raised pavement and, Ms. Lafferty, ran alongside him to his right on the lower footpath.
As he passed the south west entrance to Glenfada Park North he saw a soldier holding his rifle in the air. As he ran past the soldier lowered the rifle and fired a shot at him. He felt the whack as the bullet struck the pavement behind him. He fell as he got beyond the soldier’s line of sight. The soldier was in Glenfada Park North standing with his back to a wall about 30-40 feet away. He could not describe the soldier.
Mr. Young reached the body of Gerard Donaghy. He did not know Mr. Donaghy, he was groaning in pain. His intestines were hanging out. He tried to lift him but he was too heavy. He was like a dead weight. Together with about 4 or 5 others they managed to carry Gerard Donaghy to a house in Abbey Park. The house they went to was number 10 Abbey Park occupied by Raymond Rogan and his wife. They laid Mr. Donaghy on the floor in the living room. Mr. Young was towards his head. There were at least 6 or 7 people in the room including Mr. Rogan, his wife and those who had helped carry Mr. Donaghy. Mr. Young said he did not think Ms. Lafferty entered the house. He thought she went to tend to the other body (Gerard McKinney).
A tall man he later understood to be a doctor, Dr. Swords, came into the room and asked if anyone knew who the boy was. No one did and Mr. Young searched the small breast pockets of Gerard Donaghy’s denim jacket for any identification. There was nothing in the pockets. The doctor began examining the body and Mr. Young stood back because he did not want to see the boy’s wounds. Dr. Swords said the boy was in a bad way and had to get to hospital.
Mr. Young then travelled in the back of a car in which Gerard Donaghy was driven to Altnagelvin Hospital. They went in Mr. Rogan’s car. He did not intend to go with them but having helped carry Gerard Donaghy into the car he could not get out. On route Donaghy continue to moan but gradually the colour drained out of him.
Barrack Street/Barrier 20
The car was stopped at an army barrier in barrack Street. Mr. Young was dragged out and Donaghy’s head fell onto the seat. He remonstrated with the soldier saying the boy was dying but the soldier replied “let the bastard die.” He and Mr. Rogan were arrested. He was taken away from the car and never saw it again. Gerard Donaghy was left in the car. They were held at Pitt Street, near the barrier, for between an hour and an hour and a half. There were three other men, as well as Mr. Rogan, from another car that had been in front of them. He knew Joe Friel was in that car but cannot remember how he knew this. One of the men from that car probably told him. A soldier said that if he blinked he would blow his head off.
Whilst he was held against a wall another soldier came around the corner from the direction of the barrier and said he had been shot. He said his flack jacket had been hit. Mr. Young could not remember whether or not he overheard the soldier say another soldier had returned fire and hit the sniper but he did not actually see anything of this.
Nail Bombs
He was then taken to the army post at the Craigavon bridge. There he was interviewed by a Detective Sergeant McTaggart. DS McTaggart told him during the interview that he had been very lucky because he had been sitting on a nail bomb. Mr. Young asked him what he meant and DS McTaggart said there was a nail bomb in Gerard Donaghy’s pocket. He was shocked to hear this and he told McTaggart he had not seen any nail bomb. In his statement DS McTaggart claims Mr. Young and Mr. Rogan watched from a distance as he inspected the nail bomb in Gerard Donaghy’s trouser pocket in the car at the army post. Mr. Young said this did not happen. He was taken straight inside. His hands were swabbed and dirt taken from under his nails. He was then stripped and his clothes removed.
Mr. Young was taken from the bridge to Victoria Barracks where he was placed in a cell with Mr. Rogan. Mr. Rogan was then released but he was driven to Ballykelly. He was interviewed twice more at Ballykelly and whilst there was made to sweep the floor. He was kept awake all night. He was questioned about his family and what he knew about paramilitaries. The next day he was taken back to Victoria Barracks before being released. This was on Monday 31 January 1972. At Victoria Barracks he had a casual conversation with a detective. He was standing at the desk when a detective came in with a clipboard. He asked “is Young here yet?” and the officer at the desk directed the detective towards him. They had a conversation in which Mr. Young explained what had happened to him. Afterwards the detective said “how many brothers did you say you had?” He replied “two” and the detective said, “you only have one now.” This was the first he knew of his younger brother’s death however it was not until he got home later that day that he realised what the officer had meant. Mr. Young was later told by members of his family that the detective he had spoken to was called Donnelly but he did not know this for sure.
A DC McNulty made a statement on 1 February 1972 [JM0040.0001] claiming he spoke to Mr. Young before his release on the Tuesday (1 February 1972). Mr. Young said he thought he was released on the Monday. DC McNulty also claimed Mr. Young had told him he discovered Gerard Donaghy had a nail bomb on him whilst in the car. Mr. Young said this was untrue. The first he heard of any nail bomb was when DS McTaggart mentioned it in the interview. He said it was impossible that Gerard Donaghy had had four nail bombs on him as the police claimed. Had he seen a nail bomb he would not have been in the car with him and probably would not have carried him into the house. He could not have missed seeing the nail bombs at some point when carrying him to the house, in the house, carrying him to the car or in the car. No one, including Mr. Rogan and Dr. Swords saw any nail bombs.
Mr. Young said he did not recall being interviewed in 1991 by a journalist from PRAXIS called John Goddard. The notes of that interview [AY0001.0030] suggest Mr. Young was not released until the Wednesday. Mr. Young said this was incorrect.
Patrick McGlinchey
Made Statement to this Inquiry on 9 April 1999 [AM0247.0005]
Patrick McGlinchey was 15 years old on Bloody Sunday. He is from a prominent Republican family in Derry. His father’s coal lorry was at the head of the march. When rioting was taking place in William Street the older men prevented him and other youngsters from getting involved so he and 6 or 7 others went to Waterloo street where they threw stones at the soldiers.
He then went via Harvey Street and Eden Place to the waste ground where he saw a soldier beating a man he had apparently arrested. The soldier was not wearing a gas mask and had the man by the collar and was hitting him with the butt of his rifle. He was holding the rifle in the middle of the stock. There were a lot of soldiers about and Mr. McGlinchey ran past towards the Rossville Flats car park.
As he ran south he saw army vehicles entering the waste ground. One vehicle swung around and ended up with it’s rear doors facing the Rossville Flats. There were soldiers on the waste ground and others jumped out of the back of the vehicle. The vehicle ended up close to the mouth of the car park.
As he ran south the vehicle was behind him. He then saw 6-7 bullets strike the ground to his right, towards Block 1. The bullets struck the ground just behind the people who were running towards the gap between Blocks 1 and 2. He saw the bullets strike the ground and could tell the direction of fire but did not hear the shots fired. He thought, because they were in quick succession and evenly spaced, that they had come from an automatic weapon fired from the back of the pig. However they could have been a number of single shots and they could have been fired by the soldiers on the waste ground. He believed the shots were fired to chase the people away.
He marked his position, that of the bullet strikes and the pig on a photograph [AM0247.0011].
Body at Barricade
Mr. McGlinchey then ran through the gap between Blocks 1 and 2 and took cover behind the Threepenny Bits to the south of Block 1. He faced north but kept his head down because there was firing from several directions. He heard people talking about a man who had been shot and about trying to get to the body. He saw the body of a young man at the rubble barricade.
He then saw three men running towards a house in Joseph Place. As one of the men was about 7-8 yards from the door he reached for his back and shouted “I’m hit.” Mr. McGlinchey’s impression was that he shouted as he was hit.
Bernard McGuigan
He then saw Bernard McGuigan standing in front of him waving a white handkerchief. Mr. McGuigan was almost standing still and appeared to be looking towards the gap between Blocks 1 and 2. He was side on to Mr. McGlinchey. He said “Don’t shoot, don’t shoot!” and then fell sideways as he was killed. He did not see who shot him, although at the time he believed he could only have been shot from the city walls.
Convictions
Patrick McGlinchey was subsequently convicted of membership of the IRA, causing explosions and robbery. On 17 January 1975 he received an 8 year prison sentence for stealing £5362 on 13 March 1974 and 12 years for causing explosions on the Strand Road, Derry on 8 and 22 January 1974.
Later on 7 June 1982 he pleaded guilty to possession of weapons and ammunition, hijacking, attempted grievous bodily harm and membership of the IRA. These offences concerned events on 29 August 1981. He was sentenced to 8 years.
Mr. McGlinchey said his convictions concerned events after Bloody Sunday and his evidence to the Inquiry was truthful and accurate. He said he joined the IRA as an adult when 17. He was not involved in the Fianna in 1972.
Myles O’Hagan
Made Statement to this Inquiry on 10 February 1999 [AO0043.0001]
Myles O’Hagan was only 13 on Bloody Sunday he went to the march against his father’s wishes.
Mr. O’Hagan was going down Rossville Street when the Paras drove in. He ran to the rubble barricade. He said there was a crowd behind the rubble barricade when he got there. When the shooting started he took shelter with others behind the south gable end of the Glenfada Park North flats. He knew the firing was coming from the north near Kells Walk. He did not see anyone shot at the rubble barricade and did not recall seeing Michael Kelly’s body carried across Glenfada Park.
Arrested
Whilst hiding at the gable wall Mr. O’Hagan saw a Paratrooper arrive. He was followed by about 20 others. They were all ordered to put their hands on their heads and walk around the corner and north towards Colombcille Court. They were marched along a line of soldiers and made to stand against a wall in Colombcille Court where they were searched. He was terrified and he heard soldiers say “shoot the lot of them, they are all IRA.” He identified himself in a photograph in a line of people being led towards William Street. He also identified himself on Video 3. He was quite small even for a 13 year old.
They were all put on lorries at Sackville Street and taken to Fort George. There prisoners were made to run a gauntlet between two lines of Paras. Anyone who fell to the ground was beaten until they got up. He was pulled to one side and not beaten like the others. They were all taken inside a large hall and made to stand holding barbed wire. Paras were talking about “20 IRA dead” and “still counting bodies.” In the hall Paras came in and claimed people they said they had arrested. Those people were then taken off to a side room.
Mr. O’Hagan was photographed at Fort George [ARR0049.0001] but unlike everyone else he was not pictured with an arresting soldier. He is shown standing alone. On his arrest form [ARR0001.0003] only his name, address and date of birth appear. His date of birth is wrong suggesting he was a year older than he was. He said he spoke to a soldier who took down his details. He thinks he saw Denis McLaughlin at Fort George. He left with Barry Liddy.
Convictions
Mr. O’Hagan was subsequently convicted of planting bombs in Queen Street in the summer of 1973 when he was 15 years old. He was arrested but escaped. In May 1974 he refused to recognise the court and was convicted of escaping from custody and false imprisonment as well as causing explosions. He was sentenced to 8 years imprisonment.
Mr. O’Hagan said he was not involved in the Fianna or any Republican organisation in 1972. He did not know anyone in the Fianna at that time and did not even know of its existence. He accepted he may have thrown stones on Bloody Sunday but he could not remember.
Lord Saville ruled that Mr. O’Hagan could not be asked if he were a member of the Fianna in 1973 when he planted bombs in Queen Street since this fell outside the Attorney General’s undertaking as to self incrimination which only covered events directly related to Bloody Sunday.
For Peace Justice & Human Rights
